Enter your email address to subscribe to Irregular Times and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 371 other subscribers

Irregular Times Newsletters

Click here to subscribe to any or all of our six topical e-mail newsletters:
  1. Social Movement Actions,
  2. Credulity and Faith,
  3. Election News,
  4. This Week in Congress,
  5. Tech Dispatch and
  6. our latest Political Stickers and Such

Contact Us

We can be contacted via retorts@irregulartimes.com

Latest News on Ram Bahadur Bomjon: Scientists Denied Access, Maoist Bomjon Shopping Spree Continues

For some months now, J. Clifford has been writing on the phenomenon of Ram Bahadur Bomjon, also known simply as Ram Bomjon in the news (links: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5). To recap, Ram Bomjon is a 16-year-old boy born and living in the village of Ratnapur who allegedly is in the process of transforming into the next incarnation of the Buddha. It has been claimed that the so-called “Buddha Boy” has been sitting under a pipal tree in uninterrupted meditation since May of 2005. According to the set of people who surround and control access to Ram Bomjon, he asserted just before sitting down that he was entering into a six-year meditative state in order to attain enlightenment, a la the original Buddha Siddhartha Gautama. According to the same set of people who surround and control access to Bomjon, he:

  • has not stirred from his meditation since May 2005,
  • has had nothing to eat since May 2005,
  • has continued meditating even after being bitten by a snake,
  • and has caused two mute people in proximity to him to begin to speak.

Is this true? To date, it has been impossible to say, since those surrounding Ram Bomjon refuse to permit access to him, suspiciously shrouding him from sight at regular intervals. The committee in control of Bomjon say that any close approach or physical contact will disrupt his meditation (although a snake bite apparently could not). In the meantime, photographs clearly show that Ram Bomjon has moved.

And now, more news has leaked out, thanks to Kantipur, the Nepalese news agency. The first piece of news is that the committee controlling access to Ram Bomjon has liberalized their conditions of access to the boy Buddha: although they once did not let anyone come closer than 50 meters (164 feet) away from Buddha, they have since decided that in order to verify that Ram Bomjon is alive, visitors may now come as close to him as… 25 meters! That’s 82 feet, folks. What’s more, visitors may only remain at the 82-foot distance for thirty seconds. Is standing 82 feet away from a person for thirty seconds sufficient to know what’s really going on with that person?

Second, there have been increasing calls for investigation and empirical confirmation that Ram Bomjon has really been living since May 2005 without eating, drinking or moving. In response, the committee controlling access to Ram Bomjon has made a great deal of inviting two scientific teams to observe Ram Bomjon. The first team was allowed to stand within 16 feet of Ram Bomjon for thirty minutes. They saw that he was breathing and moved his eyelashes, but were unable to gather any other information because of the restrictions placed upon them. Team members reported that “He needs to be thoroughly examined” and “Just by examining the glucose level in his blood, it can be easily found out whether he has eaten or not.” These requests were denied. The second team was sent to the site with similar restrictions, and so was unable to complete a report.

Third, a team of seven Buddhist monks has been sent from the Pharping Monastery to observe Ram Bomjon, also from a distance. Their conclusion? Meditation in Buddhism is unextraordinary, there is not currently reason to conclude that Bomjon is the new Buddha, and “his body must be scientifically examined to know whether he has eaten or not.”

Fourth, security officials report that a large majority of income derived from the selling of Ram Bomjon CDs, t-shirts, and photographs at the site go to Maoist rebels in need of funds.

Let’s review:

  • A group of people claim that a boy has entered into a meditative state in which he has not had anything to eat or drink and has not moved since May of 2005.
  • They’re calling him the Boy Buddha.
  • This same group won’t let visitors within 82 feet of Bomjon, and only then for thirty seconds.
  • This same group has regularly used barriers to remove Bomjon from sight.
  • Special investigative teams weren’t allowed to physically examine Bomjon.
  • Those teams say they cannot verify the Ram Bomjon claims.
  • Buddhist authorities themselves say it’s not approporiate to refer to Bomjon as a new Buddha.
  • It appears proceeds from Ram Bomjon sales are going to Maoist rebels.

The Ram Bomjon phenomenon has been referred to by many people as a great mystery. I agree, but perhaps not in the manner they intend. To me, the mystery is not how a boy manages to survive nine months without eating, drinking or moving. To me, the mystery is why people are proving so eager to believe that this is the case when there is no affirmative evidence beyond the claims themselves to support these claims. To me, the mystery is why a committee would refuse to allow multiple teams to test those claims. To me, the mystery is why people aren’t more skeptical about the monetary interests of the people who are in control of access to this “Buddha Boy.” To me, the mystery is why people aren’t paying much attention to the respected Buddhist monks who say there’s no reason to think Ram Bomjon is a Buddha.

I don’t know what the resolution to this mystery is. I do, however, have a suspicion that this matter is much more about the desire of needy people to believe something special than it is about the digestive, meditative and exercise habits of a 16-year-old boy named Ram Bomjon.

73 comments to Latest News on Ram Bahadur Bomjon: Scientists Denied Access, Maoist Bomjon Shopping Spree Continues

  • Bruno from France

    your comments are clever, but oriented…you skip the cultural background of going into meditation…there is nothing to prove…there is nothing like moving or not moving…eating or not eating is secondary…if you want to change abulb, you may use a chair…or not
    this guy has gone into trying to reach self realisation..your comments do not even mention about it, and what is it ? not fair…
    if you are not interested in your spiritual dimension, let other be intertedin their own, starting with this boy…and there is no point of disturbing him with teams of doctors or whatever…at the most it would be possible to watch what’s going on with an infrared thermal camera, no need to collect his blood or something ingressive like this…also glucose level in the blood wouldnt prove much, if he has manage to survive 9 months without any food, he may well be able to still have glucose too…the case may be is beyond gross investigation of that type
    for myself I dont know for sure if he is true or not, but I intend to find out, because i think it’s a very intersting event going on, very far from war, terrorists, politics, and it deals perhaps with why we are on this earth…i’m sure at the time of the Buddha or Christ, some people would discredit what they were trying to do…all we have to do is keep an open mind, and be confident that time will tell us … if there is a trick, we will know soon,if not it will be a very intersting clue for the world

  • stef

    thanx Bruno, very wise

    comme dirait la Mère Denis
    quote
    ça c’est vrai ça
    unquote

    as Buddhists would say in Pali
    quote
    bhavatu sabbe mangalam
    unquote

  • Anonymous

    None can tell if it is a trick or not… But what we know is that some people believes in him as the new Boddissatva. He’s not the first one and if it’s right, god, it’s so good because no man like him has walked on earth for 2 500 years. It could be for anyone the occasion to know what human perfection is, to see the Enlighter (“l’Illuminé”in french), to listen to what he has to say about us, about our world.

    Damned! If that man is really on the Path, the only thing we have to do is to pray for him or let him in peace. He’s not Buddha, he’s not an icon of media. He’s a man who’s searching something. Skepticism and blind believing are the same things; let him find his way and don’t disturb him!

  • Scott

    “Skepticism and blind believing are the same things”
    “None can tell if it is a trick or not”

    Nonsense. Let me tell let you in on two clever little “tricks.” One is called evidence, the other is rationality.

  • prabesh

    lord namo buddha from the holy site of Bara will bless the world anf free the world from diseases and bring peace.
    hail lord namo buddha’s name
    om mai pame hum
    namo buddha

    he is the incarnation od buddha and christ

  • Scott

    Well that’s jolly good news.
    Hooray for everybody!

  • Scott

    Hey, my sinuses are finally clearing. Maybe prabash is onto something.
    How’s everybody else feeling?

  • mackers

    scott your crazy virus what’s the big deal, Ram bomjon was gone ,do you knows where he goes ?No one knows and that is the mystery QUESTIONED MARK ???????????Behind your narrow minded skeptic rational mind lookin for evidenced which is there in front of your nose.

  • mackers

    Hey Bruno How is the feeling of someone Boosting your Ego?

  • mindzpore

    Hey, it doesnt really matter if he is real or not. What matters is that he is an inspiration to thousands of people who, with this boost to their faith, may (most likely) try to act nicer to each other.

    Thus, whether he is a buddha or not doesnt really matter. He is already benefitting thousands of beeings. What more do you want? Displays of mystical powers and lightning shooting out his butt? What is that supposed to accomplish?

  • But Mindzpore, what evidence is there that people are being nicer to each other because of Ram Bomjon?

    Are you seriously telling me that, in order for people to be nice to each other, they need to see a teenage boy sitting under a tree for months on end? Why? If that’s true, don’t these people have really weak morals to begin with? What connection is there between a boy sitting under a tree and people being nice to each other?

    Would it be a very nice example for people if it turns out that Ram Bomjon and his friends were cheating people out of their money?

  • Cosmic Easter

    just like the story of christ, judas betrayed him just because of money.judas escariote sold him to the Government violent occured at that moment when J.C.arested. HE got punished Big Time. for saying the Truth. History repeat itself in different Angle.

  • frames

    What a load of crap! I agree with Jim. If he is the real deal then prove it. Put him in a glass cage where the rest of the world can see. I bet you he dies for a cheese burger after 2 hours flat! This is all fake to extort money from gullible people.

  • mackers

    you say it fake because you dont know nothing about him because your mind was corrupted

  • Pot

    People nowadays rarely ever come into contact with nature and spiritual matters, so leave alone understanding the gist of spiritual pursuits.

    For your information, practicing Buddhists aim at developing self-awareness and virtues to the point of perfection. Any given moment is an opportunity for self-betterment, so their attention is always going inward and not outward and elsewhere. Remember, the focus is always on oneself, not others or anything else.

    For anyone wishing to focus “elsewhere” and not upon *your own* deeds, you may answer these questions regarding the meditating boy:
    1) Is his declared intention unwholesome or malignant? How?
    2) Has his presence in the forest been harmful to anyone? How?
    3) Are his deeds blameworthy?
    4) To whom has he done wrong?
    5) With whom has he wished to associate himself?
    6) Has there been tragic consequences resulting from his meditation practice?
    7) What kind of claims has he made so far?

    To me, he’s just a boy who happens to sit under a tree, observing his own state of mind. The sun rises, the rain falls, a boy meditates. Whatever it is that he knows, we can’t know, and we shouldn’t need to know. What tyrant would it make of us to demand something out of the event blown out of proportion by the *people* but not by the poor boy? Has our love for information consumption turned into an addiction?

    In other words, whatever he is, whatever he does, it’s none of our business.

    As well, as much as there are stupid people in the world, there are also stupid pseudo-Buddhists. They called him Buddha; they must’ve forgotten to check the name on the boy’s birth certificate. I would be surprised if the name Siddhattha Gotama is printed on there.

    Regarding “skepticism”, “blind believing”, “evidence”, and “rationality”, it would be great if you could clarify what you meant when you dropped these loaded terms. In my mind, “skepticism” means believing in not believing. Despite countless established proofs, a skeptic would always rationalize himself out of the deal, for he is always seeking out shreds of evidence that confirm his own preconceptions. Like blind faith, genuine openmindedness is lacking. As for “evidence”, there are also things to consider–how are evidence collected?; who performs the evidence gathering?; which information gets left off, and which is included?; how does one measure that evidence?; how possible is it to collect evidence that can be matched up to our concept of science, which is pure materiality?; in which area is that evidence applicable? For example, centuries back, how would scientists reason (if they even know) the phenomenon in which water gets lifted off the surface of the ocean and into the sky, forming clouds? As I see it, things are often times beyond our scope. According to geologists, the Earth’s been around for 4500 million years; humans have been around at most 0.2 million years; the first microscope’s been invented around 1600’s, so 0.0004 million years ago. Could we say that our knowledge about the world has been around for 1/11250000 of the world’s age? Although I have studied science to a degree, I wouldn’t devalue spirituality and what people have come to directly experience through their insight. To pay homage to science today as the Chinese would the Mandate of Heaven would be a mistake. Dwellers of the heavily commodifying world should benefit from re-evaluating their “rationality”.

    >> what evidence is there that people are being nicer to each other because of Ram Bomjon?
    >> in order for people to be nice to each other, they need to see a teenage boy sitting under a tree for months on end? Why?

    Completely missing the point.

    People aren’t being nicer to each other because of Bomjon, and if they are, such “evidences” would be subjective. But that’s not the point. What the previous person is trying to say is that, through the boy’s publicity, the presses all over the world have somewhat shifted their coverage from usually harsh things in the world to this boy. I consider this a “break”, if you understand how news usually has a corrosive effect upon our ability to sympathize and remain sane?

    As a Buddhist saying goes, any individual capable of communication (one who has a mouth to utter words and one who has hands to write) can fall under one of the four categories:
    1) one who knows and speaks up (the preaching sage)
    2) one who knows but refrains from speaking up (the forest-bound yogi who denies pupils)
    3) one who does not know and refrains from thoughtless chatter (the observing learner)
    4) one who does not know yet speaks as if he knows (.. the man who put Iraq’s ex-leader to jail..)

    Anyone can say anything, but there’s a difference between a mere glottalized air and premeditated utterances. So I invite you all to be mindful of what you need to say, as the quality of your white matter is often judged by the merit of what falls out of your mouth.

    And please do keep this in mind,
    “If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.” –Zen proverb

  • Rino_Lac

    Ram Bahadur Bomjon is pure and inocent he just applying what he learnt from monastery (Bhudist scriptures) he put it on to practiced, by his own level of radical understanding, it works amazing for 299 days of fasting and meditation he mastered controlling mind over matter, deep within in his own strong will, that’s for sure he gained divine mystic power from the cosmic source, vibrant magnetic energy of cause and effects, of his owned Meditation technics. The word he utered is dont call me Bhuda because i dont have the Bhudas energy”im at the level of rinponche (lesser divinity) that phrase is ‘pure’ his just being honest for what he feel. I dont blame people who has negative comments on these blogs the shallow level of their conciousness is far away off to the basic level of spirituality,

    If we are not pure enough to think of voidness of the cosmic mind, like a boomerang, our mind will be negatively deluded. The pure mind is like a clean mirror that reflects of what we are.

    Peace
    Rino_Lac

  • Bruno from France

    “Nonsense. Let me tell let you in on
    two clever little “tricks.” One is
    called evidence, the other is
    rationality. ”

    Scott, funnily enough your sentense
    isn’t rational … I believe your
    rationality is of an old type,
    from times it was rational to believe
    the earth was flat, reason why we are
    all so nicely sitting on it…
    two feet in the same shoe is no good
    idea, Scott, bonne chance … :)

  • Alan

    Bruno,
    When Scott says his sinuses clear because of Prabesh’s chant, I think he is being sarcastic. Scott does not believe in Bomjon, but I think he would like to.

  • Matilda

    Things which are genuine are so in the least as well as the greatest of details. A few times science has been cited, such as the circumference of the earth, evaporation of water, etc and man’s having had to come to understand these things after having believed that simple deities brought them. Science is not invalidated by discovering the true reasons later then the mythic ones were formed. It could be that this is the mythic explanation to a complex, yet-to-be-discovered scientific process which allows these things to happen.

    Simply because the rain is explained does not negate the idea that a god or gods could’ve ordained its falling. Religion should not be cheapened by scientific study but enhanced by it. And if a religion’s claims are contested based on the scientific method, two explanations are that the religion is wrong on that point or that science is wrong and the future may show its fallacy. We should be able to explain the way things work on this planet whether or not they were directly heaven-sent.

    And come on, it looks really fishy. If they’re so sure of themselves then let them stand against science. Science will either be disproven now or later if science claims it a hoax and it turns out to be true, and since one of the Buddhist virtues is patience then Buddhists should let who they think fools prattle on. Conversely, if it is proven to be a hoax and actually is one, then those with scrutiny will be the wiser of the two groups.

    And two more things . . .

    “he is the incarnation od buddha and christ”

    You’re an idiot, prabesh.

    “just like the story of christ, judas betrayed him just because of money.judas escariote sold him to the Government violent occured at that moment when J.C.arested. HE got punished Big Time. for saying the Truth. History repeat itself in different Angle.”

    And so are you, Cosmic Easter.

    -Matilda Swanson

  • Martin Politi

    Just the ability to stay in a meditative state in the exact same position for so long is remarkable and profound. Even if it’s found he is eating and drinking at night, does it matter? He has never stated anything, just the followers and those trying to make a buck off of him. Forget the circus surrounding him, HIS story is moving.

  • Scorpion

    Matilda i cant see any point in your writing you conclude that religion and science are wrong, you indicated the future may show its fallacy? the fishy thing that you gueses to conclude is a faggy conviction.(your not sure off)

    And pls. can you explain why? you judged these people and convicted them as idiots? Prabesh/Cosmic easter

  • Shaleeni

    people seem rather desperate to prove that its a hoax
    what about the jesus/mary magdelene issue?
    the church people dont seem too eager to dig under that church yet they want to test Ram Bahadur Bomjan scientifically to steer people from Buddhism
    both issues should be left alone in my opinon

  • Xavier Hexon

    This is false power. Skeptics derive their false sense of power by demanding proof from others. They fail to realize that proof is something you go out and prove to ‘your self’. Skeptics merely sit there and ‘ask’ for things to be proven to them and are never satisfied. Skeptics don’t believe. A believer Believes. A Knower Knows. To you, Mr/Ms Skeptic, I prove Nothing. I answer Nothing. Go check your ‘own’ glucose level. You are no-one for me (nor anyone else) to be proving things to. You don’t know, because you sit back and wait for things to be proven to you, as if you are God. Go out and prove things to your own self. Do not come back until you do. You are dismissed.

  • Scott

    Post 22:
    “the church people dont seem too eager to dig under that church yet they want to test Ram Bahadur Bomjan scientifically to steer people from Buddhism…”
    both issues should be left alone in my opinon”
    –Don’t talk crap.
    All over this website there is criticism of unjustified ideas, non religious and religious, Christian and Ram Bomjanite.
    “both issues should be left alone in my opinon”
    –Others think it’s an important issue. If you disagree, then don’t engage in the debate.
    Post 23: “Skeptics merely sit there and ‘ask’ for things to be proven to them and are never satisfied…Go out and prove things to your own self. Do not come back until you do. You are dismissed.”
    –as with the above post, if you don’t think these questions are worth answering, then feel free not to engage in the discussion. Why would you make a post with the express intention of not contributing anything? Please don’t waste everybody else’s time.
    Go read up on what “skepticism” really is.
    “Do not come back until you do.”

  • Alan

    Xavier does have a point. Belief is not ‘provable’ or disprovable either, for that matter. True spirituality has nothing to fear from scientific ‘debunking’ because science and spirit are not in the same realm. You might say there is a natural separation of science and religion since they address different issues.

    The skeptics or ‘debunkers’ fashionable in sociology circles, by demanding objective “proof,” shut themselves off from experiencing the subjective world or understanding that the search itself–the journey–can be the real message.

  • Jim

    Alan,

    You’re just wrong.

    Don’t ask me for “proof” of that statement, unless you want to classify yourself as a “skeptic” or a “debunker” and, in so doing, shut yourself off from experiencing the subjective world.

  • Scott

    I know this might fall on deaf ears Alan, as you said weeks ago that “true belief” is an oxymoron.
    As for me, I prefer to believe things that are true as opposed to things that are false.
    The fact that I’m willing to try to adjudicate between the two is what makes me a skeptic.
    Skepticism is not a fashion, nor a trend, nor a game, it is a necessary condition for knowledge.
    If you disagree, then why? You disagree on some grounds or other…i.e. you think there are ways to adjudicate between true and false propositions. Ipso facto, if you disagree, then you are a skeptic.

  • Alan

    Scott, if something is true, then it’s not a matter of ‘belief,’ is it. If it’s a scientific principle, then it was arrived at by the scientific method, which means anyone anywhere can conduct a similar experiment and get the same results and come to the same conclusions. Or if it’s a scientific unknown, someone can construct a test to determine what is true, or just decide that the facts are not in, as with some of the ‘missing link’ pieces of the evolutionary puzzle that have yet to be discovered.

    If it is a ‘belief’, then by definition it can not be known. A skeptic merely judges that which can not be proven or disproven because it is not understood.

    Jim, you really enjoyed that, in a subjective sort of way, didn’t you. Well, fuck you. Subjectively speaking, of course. Prove to me that love exists. What about justice? Beauty? Can’t prove any of it, can you. Wanna see me debunk liberalism?

  • Scott

    Nope, you’re conflating ideas here.
    Facts are facts and will not change based on what you think. This is true (with a few possible exceptions in quantum mechanics). But just because something is objectively true does not imply that that you can know it.
    Beliefs are mental states and events that are about the facts. The facts may be true, but your belief states about them can be wrong.
    I think that you are missing an important epistemological point. What one knows is a subset of what one believes. Belief is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for knowledge). I think that you (and Mackers and James) want to define knowledge not as a subset, but as a separate set from belief.
    Belief is not simply guesses or opinions where each is as valid as the next. Belief is what you think about the world. I believe in a heliocentric solar system, I believe that I should jump out of the way when a bus is coming, and I believe I should have danced around Stonhenge this morning to welcome the summer.
    Some of my beliefs will accurately reflect the way the world is, some won’t. I desire to minimize those that do not, and maximize those that do. That is skepticism.
    “A skeptic merely judges that which can not be proven or disproven because it is not understood.”
    Leave out the dismissive “merely” and the description’s not that bad. Is there something wrong with not rushing in and believing any and everything; with withholdind assent until there is a reason to believe? Doesn’t that reduce the possibility that you might be wrong?
    The skeptic drives the quest for knowledge. By admnitting he/she might be wrong, he/she’s always looking for ways to eliminate wrongness. The true believer, by not being willing to admit that there are grounds for judging between true and false beliefs caps the possibility of determining truth.

  • Jim

    Fuck me, Alan? In what orifice? I’d like to get excited about the possibility, but I don’t know what sphincter to relax.

    Do you understand the analogy I made in my last comment, and why it renders your approach to reality problematic?

  • Alan

    Scott,

    Thanks for the solstice reminder. At Bishop Hill, Illinois they dance around a maypole, in the Swedish tradition. The “maypole” is shaped like a cross with circles suspended from the arms, covered with wild roses and other vegetation. While dancing around the pole, children are front and center, and songs are in Swedish and about the sounds barnyard animals make. A true Swedish pagan on this night will make a bonfire with nine types of wood and scatter the ashes over the crops. Too bad I can’t afford to travel this year or I would be dancing too.

    I don’t see belief as a necessary condition for knowledge. Suppose you want to know which new drugs might cure hot flashes. You would set up some criteria for measurement–maybe number of hours of sleep–then test some subjects in a double blind test with placebos and whatever else is in the protocol. At the end of the test you would be able to tell if any drug performed better than a placebo–without having believed beforehand that any of the test drugs would have any effect whatsoever. If the experiment was valid, someone else will be able to test the same drugs in the same way with the same results. At this point we have moved from ‘let’s formulate a way of testing what is true’ to ‘this is probably true’ to ‘this is accepted as true by the scientific community’. Belief isn’t in there anywhere.

    It is certainly part of my religious tradition to separate factual knowlege from spiritual belief. Science says how the universe was created. Belief gives answers about why the universe was created (humans created in god’s image) and value judgments about life (god saw that it was good). It is the adaptation the mainstream protestant religions made to the scientific leaps of the 19th century and later. And that apple story about the garden of eden is a whole lot more intriguing than any big bang theory. There is more acceptance now for the value of mythology, thanks to the Campbell/Moyers series, but our own unboken religious traditions remain to be culturally mined for valuable material.

    My take on James and Mackers is that in their universe the science and belief are all mixed together. Disproving, say, the light coming out of Bomjon’s head as a physical phenomenon would negate the rest of the spiritual experience for them.

    Skeptics don’t just withhold assent–at least that’s not why the Bomjon faithful are PO’d at Jim and company–the debunkers miss the whole point of the exercise and reject anything out of hand that does not have a scientific component. There can never be “reason to believe” as belief and reason, like subjective and objective, are in their separate compartments.

    When we can push a button and have television, cars, and computers, it’s hard to convince someone of the importance or even the existence of truth, goodness, beauty.

  • Alan

    Jim in your excitement apparently you did not understand my analogy to your analogy in returning your subjective insult with another subjective insult. How can it be problematic since it is the same as your approach?

    You have not yet answered my question about love, justice and beauty. Is your wife beautiful or not? Prove it. Id like to see how a skeptic can debunk that subjective statement without getting in trouble on the home front.

  • Iroquois Honky

    Ha! Just as I thought. No response from big skeptic religion-slayer Jim. Wize move on his part. But now we know which altar he worships at.

    Now, for those who find my remarks offensively boring, I have tried to insert the HTML tag for a ‘more’ button into the text at this point, so read no further until nap time. Jim’s remarks were rather naughty, weren’t they. Personal, too. I’m ready for that metaphorical cigarette. I hope it was as good for you, Jim, as it was for me.

  • Iroquois Honky

    Failed experiment. It looks like the ‘more’ button tag doesn’t work any more. I don’t see any other way for a poster to limit the readers’ exposure to potentially offensively boring material. Hey, I tried.

  • Jim

    Alan, fine. If my insult is subjective, then your notion that skepticism is bullshit is also subjective.

    End result: you can’t claim jack.

  • Alan

    Jim, I have tried to harrass you from within the valid experience of the subjective world of value judgments that we all live, breathe, and make decisions from. By agreeing with me, you turn me into a skeptic.

  • anonymous

    Im much happier to see the Nature changes in different form,Because i believed in the law of changes.The facts of the matter that the nature of ice is water,the facts of the matter that we have our freedom to put barriers in our mind for not seing the internal world just because of sensual gratification,(objective) from which to ignore the nature of our own true self? the facts of the matter that we have these physical body subjectively have the feeling of happiness & sadness, as a matter of facts we all parts and parcels of these external creation of material nature of the universe that manifested w/in the mind of God.

    I really believed that these external Nature world is real and not made of illusion.

    The facts of the matter that all source of scientific knowledge came from the Natural world, then transformed in to Artificial world. What is not natural is not permanent and what is not permanent is not worth striving after. I believe that these Man made creation of these Material world is Illusion.(objective temporary)These unatural world was created by the evil minded materialistic view of imperialism the idea is to make our world civilized in sensual gratification? These is what i called the world of pain and pleasure. The thing is we cannot escape in the natural law of Cause and Effects.(Karma)
    In my curiosity we should differentiate subjective and objective world for knowing what is rigth and wrong to get in to the point of where, the real nature of self is……?

    i have no idea if you guys are worth enough to share these wisdom……? that i experience from my Meditation.

  • Mackers

    Post#37
    Anonymous is me Mackers sorry for the confussion

  • Scott

    “i believed”
    “I really believed”
    “I believe”
    Great! Well settles everything then.
    “i have no idea if you guys are worth enough to share these wisdom……? that i experience from my Meditation.”
    If it is sacred to you, keep it so.
    If you have something not ineffible, then I’m game.

  • Alan

    “external creation of material nature of the universe that manifested w/in the mind of God.”

    Doesn’t this sound a little like the science of Quantum Physics? You know, the relationship between matter and energy. What is matter, really? A few protons, neutrons, and electrons moving randomly with huge amounts of space between them. And how does actual matter behave? Sometimes like particles and sometimes like waves…making them “wavicles”? Maybe it’s just easier to say it’s in the mind of God. Just like if you take the steps in the Big Bang Theory and lay them next to the steps of creation in Genesis, there’s a lot of similarity, except of course for the poetry in Genesis.

    “evil minded materialistic view”
    “knowing what is rigth and wrong”

    I never understood the pictures of demons on Buddhist monastery walls. Does the Buddha religion recognize ‘evil’ and ‘right and wrong’? I thought everything was part of the same circle of life. The Hindus have Shiva the destroyer of demons and Kali with her necklace of skulls…

  • Mackers

    The internal world is awesome spiritual journey. It is the surrender of what one believes to be himself,
    I thank you for the guy who mentioned,Meditation is the gift of God. i think is Beautiful,/great Realization

    Allan i have no idea of religious symbols etc. i think that’s your own admission, i don’t know if it’s right or wrong, What I’m concentrating right now is my Meditation. The reason of doing these exercise, is to know what is in the inner mind of the Meditators.

    Curiosity turns in to Positive or the Negative sight of understanding to differentiate what is Right and what is Wrong.

    The great quote Say’s The journey of a thousand miles begins on the first step. Now i can see my own path even though i’m not in miles away. I have to meditate more.

  • he dissapeared and i fear he was killed. many people belive he went deeper into the jungle. foa chi lotquoa florao houlea muwui culoasin chi gong fitsui maynsei maynsei mikeuiy ki wun

  • REZIN florida

    Dear Jim,
    You are a complete jack-ass!! First off, I am not a Christian, nor a Buddist, so let’s not try to suggest that my opinon is swayed in any matter. I am a conspiracist.
    Therefore, I am, just like you, always trying to find the hidden angle behind a story, instead of what’s being told. I find it very thought provoking that this situation has occured.
    But be that as it may, all your suggestions, and questions of “PROOF” are totally irrelevant to the fact that Ram himself has asked people NOT, I repeat NOT to call him “BUDDHA”.
    Ram admits that he has yet to have reached the same plain of “NIRVANA” as Buddha himself.
    As far as the fasting goes, well yes, I too am skeptical. But why must we judge?
    I mean, isn’t the truth of the matter being this is a teen-age boy simply meditating under a tree?
    You yourself have fallen into the media trap of believing everything you read and hear!
    Have you been there to see this for yourself? NO? Then how can you truly question the things you are questioning?

  • Pauly

    Oh, yes! Why must we judge?

    George W. Bush is torturing people, but who are we to judge? Bush lied to start an unnecessary, illegal war, but why must we judge? The government is spying against American dissidents, but in response we must, above all, avoid judging.

    Never judge anyone, and everything will be okay, right?

  • Vagabond

    He is BACK !! Just for the shear act of meditating under a tree in that unconfortable surrounding for so long shows a lot of self control. If anything – i respect him for his self mastery.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/buddha-boy-back-with-a-weapon/2006/12/26/1166895299834.html

  • Jim

    REZIN, do you have PROOF that I am a Jack-Ass? Have you BEEN to my house? Have you SEEN me? NO? Then how can you truly say what you’re saying?

    See, you can use that line for anything. Very useful.

  • Dom

    Hello, I am 17, and I would like to say, I watched a documentry on the Discovery Channel about Ram Bomjon, in which it was recorded on video of him sitting with his eyes closed in lotus position for 36 hours without food, drink, getting up, moving or speaking.

    Now, the ones who say he is a fake, I ask you to do an experiment if you feel so fervently to prove yourselves that you are “right”. Sit in lotus position for 36 hours straight with your eyes closed, “not doing anything”, with no food or drink and then see how you feel, and tell me if you still believe he is a fake or not.

    I bet most people here could not even sit like that for a half hour at most. I have meditated for 4 hours continuously once, and I observed that my legs were acheing to a great degree.

    And I also want to say, I can’t believe I am wasting my time writing stupid superfluous comments such as these. blah. i should be getting on with life. anyway… byeeeee

    everyone else here is wasting their time too, even the ones in support of Paldem Dorje. I read a few comments by some intelligent guys who seemed in favour of what Ram Bomjon is doing, but they are wasting their time too, just as I am =] damn, i just realised I am talking to myself. I am that. I am thou. :P

    must go practice guitar,
    Thank you,
    Bye.

  • Jim

    Let me get that straight: if I can’t sit for 36 hours straight, then Ram Bomjon must be real.

    Good idea. Here’s another one. I can smoke 30 cigarettes in a row. I am the Anti-Christ. Try smoking 30 cigarettes in a row. If you can’t smoke 30 cigarettes in a row, you must kill me to save Jesus.

  • Dom

    Jim…what is real?

    I never said if you cannot sit for 36 hours straight it would prove he is “real”. By real, I mean, not being a hoax, and actually doing what people are claiming he is there to do, i.e meditate, and find God. But it would give you an idea of human potential, and most ego-driven persons like you could not do that (at least not while you are so ignorant of God, or whatever you want to call it). It has been said; “With God, all things are possible”. I have not even taken a viewpoint of whether this is real or a hoax, because to be honest I don’t know. But the thing is, this kind of thing is possible, just as is anything, and maybe one day you will figure that out. Whether this is real or not, who gives shit… I shouldn’t be bothered with commenting here, but because of my ignorance it seems, I am compelled to.

    Have a nice day sir ;)

  • Dom

    Also…. I’d rather not smoke 30 cigarettes in a row, but thanks for the suggestion :P

    Why would I want to save Jesus? Who is Jesus. Jesus doesn’t exist as far as I am concerned.

    I shouldn’t be wasting my time exchanging words with the anti-christ.

  • Dom

    no more comments from me after this and i wont be checking here, so don’t bother replying to me. I can see, Jim, that you are clearly a very ignorant person. If there is any hope for you, then I hope that hope will guide you to a place free of ignorance. Your life is obviously very shallow too, with no meaning.

    This may sound defensive, but it is not, I assure you, I am only pointing some things out ;] bye

    btw, i just want to say this generally and not to anyone specifically…many religious people get caught up in so much bullshit, they think they know what truth is or what God is, but they have no clue. The word “God” might aswell not exist because its meaning has become so distorted, and dangerous. It’s really lame when people just accept beliefs just because their family believed in them and brought them up to do the same. Science is good (although limited to the senses right now…except quantum physics). Blind faith is not. Figure things out, people. If you observe and analyse yourself and life, you will realise that God does exist. Not some dude that sits up in a throne in the heavens, but God in reality is everything. Quantum physics says it is a field of energy and information, in a void of energy of information. They say that field is consciously intelligent because it created itself. That is what some people call God. But whatever you call it, it doesn’t matter.

    Excuse the lecture, I know it has nothing to do directly with the Ram BomJon thing, but I wanted to write that anyway, and i dont care what any1 says because im not coming back here, so bye.

  • Jim

    The rhetorical tactic is called reductio ad absurdum.

    You know, Dom, if you are 17 as you say:

    You’ll encounter lots of people who will try the same thing in college. There will be a heated, earnest and intense discussion among people about some social, religious, or political subject. Then someone will join the conversation and say, “Well, I’m offended by the whole tenor of this discussion. I think we ALL KNOW why some people are saying what they’re saying here…. I’m just hurt, and I can’t be a part of this discussion anymore with the hateful comments going on…” and then they’ll give a knowing glare and leave the room, leaving everybody to guess and reconstruct what might have caused such dramatic offense.

    It’s a passive-aggressive tactic — meaning a way for someone to intuit something without having to prove it, a way for someone to place wild card asterisks where an argument would be, a way for someone to look knowing without demonstrating knowing, and finally a way for someone to ask to be emotionally taken care of.

    That’s what you just did. Maybe it passes muster in high school. Maybe it will pass muster in your college dorm room conversation. But you should know that it doesn’t pass muster in grown-up conversation. Don’t just drop off a few comments about how you’re so offended and nobody can live up to your standards, and by the way you’re moving on now. Stick around and have the courage to join a conversation in which what you say is actually challenged as much as you challenge what others say.

    If you are up for it, describe the ignorance and shallowness you see in me — specifically. Do you mean that I don’t see the world the way you do? Or do you mean something else? Use your desire to question to tell us specifically what you saw — and didn’t see — in the video. Look up the experience of other people who end up doing something for 36 hours straight, and see what is possible in human experience. Then consider the months Ram Bomjon was said by his handlers to have remained in the same position without eating or drinking, and talk about the possibilities in the same terms — or explain why different terms are necessary, in an explicit and specific way.

    Engage other people. Define the words you use. Sharpen your argument. That’s how we all learn and grow.

  • Alan

    First of all Jim, I know reductio ad absurdum is your favorite rhetorical device (google the wikipedia article, Dom, for an overview of types of arguments) but Jim, whatever point you are trying to make about the 30 cigarettes and the anti-christ has not been made. I didn’t follow your point at all. Perhaps I need a drink on New Year’s Eve after all.

    It’s a pretty good point Dom made that Bomjon sat for 36 hours straight with a camera on him. That doesn’t sound like some sort of prank. It sounds to me like a sincere religious thing. But your point, Jim, about Bomjon being without food for months at a time and still being alive makes me think something about Bomjon’s handlers is not on the up and up. When you get right down to it, what can you now about anyone’s motives. Who can read minds? All you can know is what they say and what they do.

    No, Dom I don’t think Jim is either shallow or ignorant or has a meaningless life. I do think he is not good at recognizing spiritual values, or at charting his own spiritual territory. Also sometimes he likes to pick an arbitrary position to argue from just to make the other person think or to see what they will say.

    I like the way you merge the definition of god with quantum physics. It’s the closest I have come to understanding god so far. If you are saying what I think you are saying, then you, Jim, me and others are all part of an information and awareness grid that is god.

  • Dom

    Hello Jim,

    I respect what you are saying, and I would like to state a few points in reply to your post. As I said there was no need to reply, but whether you reply this next time or not doesn’t bother me because I won’t be here.

    First off, I would like to say I am not argueing. Argueing is not something I am interested in – I would rather get on with life.

    You were saying about human potential. Well from my own experience I know about human potential, and the great achievements that are possible for man. Why? Well, I practice guitar 5 – 12 hours a day, and the results seem to be paying off.

    Your point about “passive-agressive tactic” does not apply to me. I need not go into the reasons why, but that was not my frame of mind, and I am not interested in whether you believe that or not, but I am just going to say that is the honest truth.

    I can and do emotionally take care of my self.

    I was not offended, and I have no standards for people to meet.

    I go to college and I do not encounter these things as you say I will. I am only studying music anyhow.

    I shall not be sticking around, because I have to get on with things. This is not a matter of courage.

    I am not up for those things you were stating, because I should be going now.

    I like to be honest about things, and I would like to say that one of the reason’s I’m here is an egotistical one. Even me writing this post now is me being egotistical. I’m trying to defend what you were saying in a sense, but also because, to me, what I am saying is the truth. I will use this information to try and improve myself for the better. Jim, why are you here? and why is everyone else who is here, here? You may say you are here to discuss RamBomjon, but go beyond that, and really try to understand why you are here. Most arguements are an ego-scene. I think we should stop playing mind games.

    I hope everyone has a happy new year.
    Thank you.
    Dom.

  • Jim

    Any number of people can sit for 36 hours straight with a camera on them, especially from a distance, as these cameras were, and without a physical inspection of Bomjon, which was also missing. That’s a nice parlor trick, but it doesn’t establish anything about Bomjon’s super-special spiritual status.

    My point was to show the weakness in the next standard that Dom set out: hey, you try it! I know I can’t do it! If you can’t do it, then Bomjon must be some super-special spiritual guy. Well, I can say the same about cigarettes, then, can’t I?

  • Jim

    I’m here because I write for this blog. I write this blog because I like to share my thoughts, read others’ thoughts, and engage in argument — not in the sense of yer mom yelling at you to take yer shoes off the coffee table, but to set up standards, bring knowledge to the table, and sharpen both through interaction. I write this blog because there are things going on in this world that I think other people may want to know about. I write this blog because I think that politics is too important to be left to the politicians, religion is too important to be controlled by the mullahs and bishops, knowledge is too important to be left to the academics, and generally any life activity of ours is too important to be left up to the controlling institutions that try to massage us into a place comfortable for them.

  • Alan

    The point of meditating is not that it is physically grueling, as practicing music for 12 hours at a time or smoking 30 cigarettes would be physically grueling.

    If you remember, at one point the original Buddha lived in the forest with monks who physically deprived themselves. He also spent the first part of his life in luxury, since he was born a prince. Neither way–physical overabundance or physical deprivation–was the path to enlightenment, he decided. The string that is not stretched tight enough does not play music. The string that is stretched too tight breaks. Buddha’s way is the Middle Path.

    The point of meditating is to reach some sort of inner spiritual experience of detachment from the world, as a preparation for death and rebirth. As I recall, there are also measurable physical effects like decreased heart rate. We can only see that Bomjon was sitting still at certain times when the public was permitted to see him. We can’t see his inner experience. We can’t know if this is really preparing him for death and rebirth.

    What’s wrong with doing something egotistical? If the purpose of your life is to promote someone else’s life, then what is the purpose of their life?

    I read this blog to stay informed about politics, especially before visiting my conservative relatives, and secondarily to be entertained. I also try to defend spirituality in general from a maintream protestant point of view without defending the stupid things people do in the name of religion. I love Arabs and am often frustrated by them.

    If a politician somewhere does something stupid or crooked, you can bet Jim or someone else here will write about it. If someone like Mel Gibson uses profanity or an ethnic slur, they will tell you exactly what he said, instead of beating around the bush. They also track voting records for members of congress and publish a scorecard for each. You can find a link to it somewhere on their front page, so you can see how your elected officials are representing you.

  • Jean

    I wonder if a more appropriate title might turn out to be: “The Boy with the Divinely, (Discreetly Concealed) I.V. Feeding Tube”….HMMMM?

    Does anyone here remember the old Fakir’s “hidden jointed stick platform” levitation trick? If they can hide a support crutch apparatus behind a linen cloth so cleverly, to make it appear that a trickster can suspend himself in mid-air, (or a breathing tube, similarly buried and run into a “buried alive yogi’s” coffin), then what are the odds that an intravenous feeding/hydration tube could be similarly cleverly concealed in a tree trunk, or underground, and run into a vein somewhere in the boy’s body, such as into a hip, leg, etc.?

    I’ve seen some pretty clever deceptions in my time, so…

  • paul

    There’s 2 groups of people here. Those more interested in whether he eats or not. The other having a suspicion or some even knowing that he is on his journey to attain god.

    I hope one day he emerges as a great spiritual teacher.

    We should let him do what he has to do and if thats to be a spiritual teacher, then good. If it’s not then we will have to wait for another.

    I’ve been told that spiritual guidance is given whenever a person is ready.

    So now we must wait.

  • i beleive he should be tested then we can sewe if he is lying or this is real stuff this is the only way i’ll beleive i mean lights coming from his head is sign of a very spiritual person, cathcing on fire is simply amazing, when he is tested then we can all be put to rest seeing if he is really a holy indiviual and change all our releigions but if not well what can i say!!

  • Sylph

    The boy does not claim to be Buddha and I am not even sure if he is claiming not to be eating or drinking. He interests me for after meditation under a wise old tree for many years he may indeed become enlightened by God and have something valuable to preach to us.
    I can see why he wants to leave home – his family have created a circus ring around their son and are taking money for the freak show.
    After spending a couple more years under a wise old tree I hope God enlightens him – the first people he needs to preach to are … his own family. When your child tells you they want some space – don’t follow them around and set up a camp next to them. When your child tells you they have an important message to tell people in the future – that is enough to be happy with – you don’t have to tell everyone he bursts into flames and doesn’t eat or drink for extra attention. And finally, when a child has a talent – don’t cash in on it for your own selfish means!!!!!

  • usha

    The question often arises if the meditation of Ram Bahadur Bomjon is true or not, but the answer is simple “curious media” and not “curious public” it may sound strange but what curious public of Nepal would have done if there were no media was talk about it to friends and family….but look at it media is making it a movie,a news. I don’t think there were any need for all these things. There are many poor people who do not eat for longer time. I think let “Dorje” do what he think is good for him as an independent citizen and not make a story out of it. If he is next Buddha then even Lord Buddha can’t stop him to gain Buddha hood.
    It is all believe and so may it be…….

  • Mark

    Interesting posts from the rationalists and spiritualists on here! I suggest those who seek a little more illumination on the very real relationship between science and spirituality read ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’. You may find Yogonanda’s discussions on this topic particularly interesting.

    However, the modern science as we currently see it (which ultimately requires physical and circumstantial evidence of a phenomenon) is limited by its very nature to urravel the mysteries of what happens during spiritual practice, kudalini yoga, samadhi and other practices. As has already been suggested, one could at best take an ifrared image of Ram Bahadur Bomjon. However, if he had attained cosmic conciousness or another elevated state I doubt you would get any image. Physical objective evidence of an etheral subjective experience is beyond any ‘technology’ I belive we posess.

    I think empirical investigation is limited but the basis upon which it is founded (objective justification). Hopoing to gain such proof of Ram Bahadur Bomjon’s state is futile at best. Subjectively, I think the message he delivered in 2007 was as meaningful, eloquent and heartfelt as any other similar message I have heard from the great teachers like Lahiri Mahasaya, Sri Yukteswar, Paramahansa Yogonanda and countless others. To that end I believe he must be an enlighted individual. Whether he ‘is’ Buddha, I do not know. He has refuted that too…I personally look forward to seeing the culmination of his meditation and what it will bring to the table of spirituality. I am sure that it will be nothing but good.

    This is a fellow being making his own spiritual journey through evolution, whether some believe it or not. Why must humanity cast a spotlight on such an individual, give label’s which he has refuted, and exploit his obvious spiritual determination for financial gain (the family)? Ultimately, whatever he has come here to achieve has not yet manifest – we should therefore at least give him the peace that he requests. If nothing it shows the irreverance modern society has for spiritaul pursuits of this nature.

    If you require proof etc, then just walk away! Nothing will be gained to you from trying to disprove a person who delivers a message of hope and spiritual potential.

  • Eric

    Hey Mark, funny that you just posted that today. I found out about Ram Bahadur just today and it seems pretty real to me. Watch the Discovery Channel special on Youtube. I also just bought “autobiography of a yogi” randomly last week because I thought the guy on the cover looked cool. it was just $3, so I picked it up and started reading it. Will read the rest of it too i guess.

  • Mark

    Good one Eric….that book will become a treasure to you. I will be reading it for a seccond time in the near future, I think it takes a second read to really digest some of the higher metaphysical wisdom contained within its pages. Take it slow and enjoy! Such a small price to pay for what I consider to be truth.

    I will watch the You Tube video as well, thanks for that suggestion!

  • if you are out there in a jungle the most digusting thing you face is probably insects bites esp. mosquitoes etc.

    the boy just sat there – courtesy of discovery channel video – without ever moving not that completely is just amazing.

    unfortunately for your nit picking about “slight movements” otherwise your article is ok.

    like some your commentors said, the ultimate goal of his is to gain enlightenment and other than that nothing else is important and we shall see dont we what he shall be doing when time comes.

    from his speech he seems pretty credible.

  • Suman

    He is doing meditation just for himself, not for others. As he suggested we have to seek ourselves. The best thing for now is not to bother him and let him seek his goal which is self realization. One day if he achieve enlightenment the flower will rose and one who is near him will automatically get the fragrance.

  • hongduyen

    i think the buddha boy is awesome

  • Lalith

    There are similar type of Buddhist Monks who is attending deep meditations in Sri Lanka, but in jungle areas. They try their best to attain NIBBHANA….. ! They also do not meet public & they also try their maximum to leave the modern town areas and General Public as all these things are obstacles for the Path of Nibbhana… !!

  • [...] Bomjon’s devotees said that he had not taken food or water, or even moved, for months. Police and scientists pointed out that Bomjon’s friends had not allowed anyone to get any [...]

  • Tami

    Ram Bomjon himself has said that he is not Buddha but a Rinpochhe. I think those community people are not allowing them to do any physical test on him while meditating is because it can break his concentration but i think it would be good idea if they come back later to test him right after he finishes his meditation.

  • Interesting Info.I am also from Nepal so I have updated news about him.May be you should check it http://tinyurl.com/d8u2j5c

Leave a Reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>