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Unitarian Universalist Congregation Gets Arky Arky

Riddle me this:

How does the story of Noah’s ark fit with the following seven Unitarian Universalist core principles:

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

I have watched Unitarian Universalists get arky arky.

26 thoughts on “Unitarian Universalist Congregation Gets Arky Arky”

  1. s says:

    Sounds like Communists.

    1. J. Clifford says:

      Doesn’t everything that doesn’t include a juicy steak wrapped up in an American flag being eaten by guys in camouflage jackets in a sport utility vehicle with a gun rack sitting in a Wal-Mart parking lot sound Communist to you?

      1. qs says:

        And what’s the steak part supposed to mean? You’re a vegan?

        I don’t have any problem with banning meat farms, on a local level of course, if that’s what you mean, but I think hunting should be fair game since nothing cruel is really being instituted.

        This Church or Congregation still sounds communist to me though.

        1. J. Clifford says:

          The steak part is supposed to be a joke, qs.

          You might as well call the Unitarian Universalists monarchists. You don’t understand Communism at all, and you apparently haven’t bothered to research the Unitarian Universalists either.

  2. qs says:

    I don’t support the pledge of allegiance for your information. Patriotism just means supporting what the politicians are doing, and the politicians always will try to use it for their advantage. The right is patriotic when Bush is in power, and no that Obama is in power can in control of his gigantic standing army, they’re really patriotic all of a sudden.

    Our pledge was actually designed by a marxist to produce “National unity” and “National identity”, and FDR wasted no time in exploiting it either.

    Anyways, how is this different than communism. The left just took communism and renamed it “Unitarian Universality Congregation.”

    1. J. Clifford says:

      How is it different from Communism? Communism sought to ban religion. Unitarian Universalism is a religion. There’s one big difference for you, qs.

      Another: Communism was political, military and industrial in its methods and goals. Unitarian Universalism is none of those things.

      A third thing: Communism sought the abolishment of the family unit. Unitarian Universalism doesn’t do that.

      A fourth thing: Communism asserted that everything was the property of the state. Unitarian Universalism doesn’t.

      I could go on and on and on and on and on and on, qs. You really must drop this old habit of declaring everything that you don’t like to be Communist. Do you understand what Communism is at all?

      1. qs says:

        It’s not political?

        Well then it’s not so bad I guess.

  3. qs says:

    I recall reading that Jefferson wrote his own Bible.

    So maybe this stuff is what he thought.

    1. J. Clifford says:

      Not exactly, but you’re on the right track. Presidential candidate Mike Gravel is Unitarian. At least one of our earlier presidents was a Unitarian… but then, what’s a Unitarian has changed a lot over the years. I suggest you look into it a bit more.

  4. qs says:

    Houston we have a problem,

    87% of housing forclosures centered in three states: CA, FL, NV, and AZ.

    Barney Frank is on it.

    1. Jim says:

      No, it isn’t. Go back, click on the link again, and read it again.

  5. Kimberly S-K says:

    As a solid UU, I can completely agree with you JClifford, that I find little if any worth in the Noah’s Ark story. In my opinion, this story from the Bible was penned by some regular person, or perhaps it is a conglomeration of folk tales (“just so” stories) handed down through many generations of regular people, and should not be given any more reverance than any other folk tale. If it were just about singing a song, I might be okay with that as I sing songs all the time with words I woudn’t necessarily profess (spirituals, pop songs in the car, latin masses with a big choir, etc).

    But I think you are on the right track to open a dialog with the person who organized the service. Maybe you’ll learn something about his/her perspective on the story that will be redeeming in some way. If not, you’ll have the conversation itself, which I think is worthwhile. All of that is perfectly in keeping with the 7 principles.

  6. Vincet says:

    As a Humanist/Atheist I have likes and dislikes about my UU denomination. First, they do accept me and almost anyone else who is not themselves, intolerant, but I do find their “seeker” sort of newageism a bit tiring. Many UU’s are radically antitheistic and would have responded vigorously to that silly song.

    As a very active student of the Bible, I find the Noah’s Ark story a sad primitive myth and interesting only from it’s literary history. First, it was plagiarized from the far older story of Gilgamesh. Then there are two versions, interlaced together in the Bible. Every atheist should read “Who Wrote the Bible” by Richard Elliot Friedman. This books contains facts, results of careful research, and is far more effective than Bible bashing against the fundamentalists.

  7. Vincet says:

    Look before you leap dept:
    February 26th, 2009 at 10:38 am · Reply
    I recall reading that Jefferson wrote his own Bible.
    So maybe this stuff is what he thought.

    Go to and put Jefferson Bible in the search!

  8. Jacob says:

    I am suprised that the UU church even uses the Bible. It stands against everything they believe. The idea of Universal Salvation can not be found at all in the Bible. In order for the UU church to use it without compromising the idea of Universal Salvation you would have to throw out the entire Bible. My brother was just married by a UU pastor and I was suprised to find on his website that Jesus is viewed as a great teacher and moral leader. The idea is simply not possible…

    C.S. Lewis said it best
    “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

    Why would the UU church even bother with the Bible? It seems to stand for everything the UU is against.

    1. Hendrix says:

      Classic false choice CSL sets up there. By all means, what were these horrible teachings of Jesus that disqualify him as a moral teacher? That is to say, please give the Christianist explanation for why your bible is immoral. And please let’s skip the “son of God” business, we can all be “children of God” in this context.

  9. Kevin says:

    The UU directly says it has christian roots.

    some groups are very christ oriented and also assert his divinity.

    others…not so much.

    1. Jacob says:

      They assert His divinity and then claim it doesnt matter???? Seems like for people who use logic to find deeper understanding this argument falls apart before it starts…

  10. Jacob says:

    So they assert His divinity and then preach that he really doesnt matter??? For people who find deeper search through logic and meaning the argument falls apart before it even starts…

  11. Jim says:

    Gee, Jacob. We had this “doesn’t matter” conversation back in April.

    Rather than going down the same road again, why don’t you consult that thread and maybe sit down and have a conversation with a UU minister?

    1. Jacob says:

      I did. He didnt answer anything… He told me everyone believes something different. This is a different conversation all together (please read above conversation). I am trying to dtermine why a person would hold to a document that is against what they believe. If I believe there are no aliens why would I hold “Proof that Aliens Exist, the book” dear to my hear and preach on it. I starting thinking about this while reading an off the the blog article and discovering that one of the writers her is a practicing member of this church. I have yet to say it doesnt mean anything in this line of conversation. I am just confused as to why someone would use a book they think as wrong… How many different ways has this site looked at spying from space? If you thinking continuelly working towards greater understanding is stupid then please limit your articles to one article per subject… I do find it humour that you are so condensinding of me, I have yet to make one off color remark in this conversation and you already seem to know my thoughts in advance and dissaprove of them before I even think them. (Rather than going down the same road again). So, I ask again a perfectly normal question that has nothing to do with the value of the UU or of an members of the church of which we are speaking. I ask this question from the idea that at least one paid member of this site and several regular visitors are UU members and might be able to assist me in this knowledge that I seek. It cannot be because Jesus is God because that would defy the idea of Universal Salvation. If I am wrong on that please explain. How do the two work together. (Side note again: I at this point am not saying this doesnt matter, what I am asking for is why this particular book in this particular group)

      1. Jacob says:

        In fact, JClifford seems to be asking the same question in this article but in the smaller scale of one story in the book (one that happens to have a reoccuring them throughtout the whole dog gone thing). Why is it that the exact same question from two different people is smart one way and stupid the other?

      2. Jim says:

        Well, I’m not a Unitarian Universalist, but the scope of possible answers is pretty obvious:

        1. The title of the Bible is not “Proof that Jesus is the Savior, the book.” The vast majority of the Bible has nothing to do with, or is only indirectly related to, the claim that Jesus is a divine savior. There’s all sorts of other stuff in that book, which means there are all sorts of other lessons one might get from that book.

        2. “Why someone would use a book they think as wrong”… Shakespeare’s wrong, you know. Why read it? Mein Kampf is wrong, you know. Why read it? Principia Mathematica is wrong, you know. Why read it? There are all kinds of reasons to read books you think are wholly, or in part, wrong.

        3. UU is a theologically diverse group, not a monolithic singularity. I have a small number of UU friends, and they’ve expressed all sorts of thinking about these sorts of things. You’ll find disagreements between different UU individuals and different UU churches, but it’s not a dirty secret of the whole UU approach — it’s part of what UU seems to be about.

        To put it more succinctly: because some UU people think differently about themselves and the Bible than you do. Which is pretty much the same answer from the previous thread.

        I’m serious: why don’t you go find a UU minister to sit down and talk to with your questions? That’s not a taunt, and it’s not meant to be condescending. If you really want to understand UU thinking, why not go to a primary source?

        1. Jacob says:

          See thats the problem, I did go to a UU minister and he didnt answer any questions for me. I understand that as a group there are different answers to the same question and that is the foundation of the church. You are right in the fact that the entire Bible does not directly speak of Jesus. The idea of single groups being saved while the rest are not is through out. The article that prompted this response is of the ark, a universal flood that kills almost all life on Earth. Flip through your Bible and that theme is in every chapter. We start with God kicking people out of Eden because of sin. The forst 5 books contain a world wide flood, punishment of Eygpt, the killing of first borns, the distuction of cities who are sinful. We find constant judgment on the Isrealites in the desert and we hear repeatdlt that God is only with them and with no one else. We see people burned and die on the spot and the Earth open to recieve people. When the Isrealites left the desert God wiped out groups of people and entire cities are destroyed. God gave all land to them and war ensued many many times where God allowed others that are not his to die. This pattern is in almost every book in the OT. This screams the exact opposite of Universal Salvation. In fact, every book of the OT speaks of law and judgment for those who do not obey the law. We even see in Isiah how Angels and heavenly beings recieve judgment. So on to your three points…
          1. I agree there are many lessons in this book otherwise I would never speak of it. 99% of these lessons though are not simple live better lessons. They are lessons that have eternal consequences attached and I cant think of many major stories where some form of isolated salvation doesnt come into play.
          2. You are right, there are a lot of books that are wrong but to find a book that you think is wrong and place it in the center of your quest for spirituall enlightenment seems to make little sense. Have you heard of someone preaching on Shakspear and using Hamlet and a center piece for their religion? Thats the point Im getting at. Its not that they read it… Its that it is in a place of promenance dispite the fact they think it is wrong…
          3. My primary source was a joke who spoke in circles and couldnt answer a single question about anything other then yes I preach here. In an hour we talked in circles and couldnt even agree with himself. When I pointed out the discrepincies in his own thought he told me he was still searching and really had no answers that where foundational other then he believed there was a god of some sort out there bigger then we could name or know. ‘He just felt it…’ This is the pastor of the church, the guy in charge, the guy that should at least have a couple of answers. Since I didnt get them there I figured I might try them here because this group seems to be able to at least give rational well thought out answers other then ‘I just feel it’. Its not that I am trying to be annoying or a pest, I am just looking for rational answers that have substanance where I can at least say ‘I see where you are coming from’ despite whether I agree or not. It seems on this question the only anser available is “UU people think differently”. There is no rational behind that thought process… I know that cant be the answer because the whole idea behind this church is logivall search for truth and the stories in the Bible violate several points of the 7 foundation points to the whole church. (Points violated by scripture are 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7)

          1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

          Not every person is saved in the Bible, in fact in the OT no one outside of the group of Isreal had any chance to go to heaven…

          2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

          In the Bible we see war, murder, stoning, etc… Justice, yes. Equality as the UU sees it, no. Heck, its the Bible that makes the path for homsexual marriage so hard. Where do you think all Bible thumpers stand on the issue?

          3. Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

          There is no encouragment for spiritual growth outside of the God of Isreal in the Bible. People who went away from that usually died. Think the entire OT

          4. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

          I will say the Bible does not violate this. People can freely search but some paths lead to damnation

          5. The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

          I dont see that in the Bible. It never is what do you all think on the issue. It is God commands people do. Disciples teach, people do.

          6. The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

          Justice for all, once again the Bible says thats true. World peace only comes after Christ returns accoring to Scripture and we never even see a hint of it at any point in history. In fact the Bible teaches that we will never be at peace with those that are against God, there will always be strif in some way shape or form.

          7. Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

          No, Bible teaches that only the God of Isreal should be respected and all other ways are wrong.

          What I am getting at here is the Bible seems opposite from what the average UU claims to believe and set as the foundation of the church. To use the Bible seems like a hipocrtical thing to do…

  12. Richard says:

    Jim David Adkisson (1950 – ), is a patriotic American Vietnam veteran
    who on 27 July 2008 entered a Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee with
    a 12 gauge shotgun and opened fire at the mob of liberal race-traitors gathered therein.
    The so called “church” had been involved with a variety of dangerously twisted liberal activities
    that included agitating for extra-judicial rights for women and homosexuals, vagrants
    masquerading as political refugees, and had even founded a local chapter of the
    pro-communist Jewish controlled American Civil Liberties Union. Single-handedly Adkisson
    managed to kill two and wound seven of the diseased degenerates. In honor of his heroic
    actions 27 July has officially been designated as Jim Adkisson Day.

    1. Fred UU says:

      Do cut-and-paste spam comments honor the memory of Jim Adkisson?

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