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Fact Check: is Lewiston, Maine riddled with Crime since Somali Immigrants Came to Town?

When I listen to people talk about the most “dangerous” places to live in Maine, the city of Lewiston constantly comes up. You wouldn’t want to live in Lewiston, people tell me. All the Somalis have made Lewiston a dangerous place to live, they say. You can see these kind of remarks online, too:

Madeleine, October 2012:

"Hey Happy Somali. Your Kinsman are behaving like entitled jerks. Why?

Do you think it's OKAY to come here to the USA and get away with lawlessness?... When your kinsmen come here, the quote of "YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT" applies. So show some respect. Stop your kinsmen from attacking old ladies and bringing in gangs to fight with the natives in Lewiston and Auburn.

Stop your kinsmen from sex trafficking and other illegal and evil crimes."

Feces Peces, Augusta 2012:

"Lewiston used to be a beautiful place in synch with the rest of Maine. Now that some putrid trash libs imported these people Lewiston is a crime ridden run? down dump. I wish I could put into words the utter disdain we have for liberal fecal matter. I just can't think of a strong enough word to label vile pig liberals with."

DrewciferFSA, October 2012:

"I grew up in downtown Lewiston from 1982 until 2003, it's been a dump as far as I can remember. From what I've seen? when I go back to visit, the Somali's certainly didn't help.
It seemed to go from just poor alcoholics to a more violent type. Glad I'm 1400 miles away now."

Ancient Legacy, February 2011:

"Somali refugees completely fucked up Maine.
Instead of assimilating into maine and into the american way of life, they brought their crime, gangs, bad habits, and disgusting behavior to? maine.
They've made lewiston into a "little Somalia" basically turning it into a shit hole.
Fuck you somali's go back to your damn country, stop fucking ours up."

Stuff Black People Don’t Like, September 2012:

Lawrence Auster made mention of the importation of crime to Lewiston that came with the “Great Somali Wave of 2002” back in an entry at View from the Right in 2009. Well, CNS News (CNSNEWS.com) published a hard-hitting article on July 25, 2012 that dared to expose the importation of “crime that normally only Black people in America will commit” courtesy of Somali refugee…

Is this all true? Has Lewiston, Maine descended into crime because of the influx of Somali immigrants?

It’s time for a fact check.

Lewiston, Maine is almost a perfect test case for this sort of claim because the history of Somali immigration is recent and well-documented: the very first Somali family moved to the city of Lewiston in 2001, and having recommended the city to other Somalis, triggered an influx soon afterward (on this point, see Andrew Cullen’s history of Somali immigration to Lewiston in the Kennebec Sun Journal). 2001 is the clear date marking Lewiston before Somalis and Lewiston after Somalis.

If the presence of Somali immigrants led to high crime rates, then crime report data from the FBI (here and here)should show the crime rate in Lewiston rising from a lower pre-2001 level to a higher post-2001 level.

Here’s the data, courtesy of the Uniform Crime Reports:

Violent Crime in Lewiston is lower since Somalis immigrated.

Violent crime in Lewiston is actually lower than average since the arrival of Somali immigrants.

Property Crime in Lewiston is down since Somalis arrived.

Property crime in Lewiston is actually lower than average since the arrival of Somali immigrants.

Reality doesn’t support the racist delusion of a Somali crime wave in Lewiston. It’s a shame that reality hasn’t stopped people from spreading race-based tall tales of danger.

199 comments to Fact Check: is Lewiston, Maine riddled with Crime since Somali Immigrants Came to Town?

  • manning120

    Anti-immigrant bigotry exists everywhere. Down where I live in South Texas, there’s a proposal to have DNA analysis done of the remains of persons found dead without adequate identification in areas known to be used by people from south of the U.S. border, generally Hispanics, who come here without legal sanction, usually being brought by human traffickers, and died during their journey toward where they intended to work. The DNA evidence would be used to identify the deceased so that relatives could find out they died. When a newspaper article about this appeared in Corpus Christi, the same type of bigoted comments (although not quite as vitriolic as the ones in Maine) appeared. Basically, those writers said the people who died were “scum” and, instead of identifying them, their remains should be summarily destroyed or put in boxes and shipped back where they came from (of course, no one would know where they came from if they couldn’t be identified). This type of bigotry was manifested even though more than 50% of the population in South Texas is of Hispanic origin.

  • Bill

    When we moved from our old home in the north (a city with 217 murders last year) to our current home in the South near a comparably sized city (yet only 26 murders last year), my new neighbor was just trying to be helpful when he warned me never to go into the city at night because “the blacks take over and kill anything that moves.” Ah. Uh-huh.

    The great thing about bigotry is that it’s self-validating, because believing is seeing.

  • Terry

    The problem is with media, they report all the Somali crimes so it seems as though they are the ones increasing crime in the city. The current goal of media is to incite a race war, what do you expect?

  • Joshua Jackson

    Haha, hate to burst your bubble but u need to read your charts again. Crime rates steadily increased. Then dropped off a little back to where it was when they first showed up. And property crime only went down because there wasnt any crap to steal from themselves. And if you look at the end of your pretty chart property crime spiked once the gov’t funding kicked in and they all went and bought crap with our tax money. So to say the least… you cant foolc me. And if anyone believes this retoric go down to Lewiston and see for yourself!

    • Jim Cook

      The data don’t reveal anything like that, Joshua. What you’ve created is an after-the-fact story that is consistent with your pre-existing bigotry.

  • Benjamin Holmes

    Firstly I am not racist or bigot and I do have some Somalian friends. With that being said I have lived in the Lewiston/Auburn area for a combined 7 years (2+5) to the present day. I lived here as a teenager and now as an adult. In middle school and high school the Somalian students kept to their groups but after school I was often attacked by them on my walk home. Not just the boys either a girl slapped me in the face because she doesn’t like stupid white boys. I never even spoke to her before that. I was just walking by. I was at least harassed at the very least by different groups. After freshman year of high schooI moved to my dads in northern maine. After college I moved back to lewiston got a job and had a family. My eldest boy was jumped by four Somalian boys who “hate white n******s” they choked him punched him and threw sand in his eyes. We called the police who basically did nothing but release the Somalian boys to their parents. That violent crime won’t show up on your statistics. Plus this wasn’t the only time my kids were hit. Since then my family has been a target of many aggressions. I have had a brick in my wind shield, my tires cut, keyed, sand in my gas, stolen bicycles, a break in, and death threats. We have moved twice already. His old classroom had 30-50% Somalian children and even the teachers admit they have a hard time. The old bus driver told me there isn’t a thing he can do so instead we drive our kids to school. They tell my kids constantly that Jesus is dead and he is satan etc. I got my boy into a private school to avoid more violence he goes to Saint Doms. I am not alone there are other parents and neighbors with similar concerns. I have called the police so many times and we talk and I hear of awful things happening all over. A few years ago a few of the shops on Lisbon st near the library had signs saying “No Whites Allowed”. Look it up in our local newspaper the Sun Journal. Of course not all Somalians are this way, one of my neighbor’s now are Somalian and they take good care of their children and are respectful. They keep a clean home and my boy and theirs are friends. I would say that overall lewiston auburn is not a great place to live. After I am able to move my business else where I will.

    • Jim Cook

      No, actually, Benjamin, that assault would show up in the police statistics, because the Uniform Crime Reports deal with occurrences, not arrests or convictions. Consider:
      1. It’s awful that your family has been assaulted by Somalis.
      2. It’s also just as awful that other families in Lewiston have been assaulted by non-Somalis.
      3. It is also true that since Somalis moved to Lewiston, the crime rate has gone down, not up. These three statements can all be simultaneously true.

      • Benjamin Holmes

        Here try this link http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Lewiston-Maine.html it shows how crime rate has increased. The crime rate goes from 104 to 178 to 130 as it has increased. These appear to be the same data points in the graph above.

        • Jim Cook

          Benjamin,

          No, it doesn’t show anything of the sort.

          First of all, the crime rate as displayed on that page goes DOWN from 319.5 in 2001, the year that Somalis started arriving in Lewiston, to 2012, the latest available year with crime rate data.

          Second of all, that crime rate data doesn’t go well back in time to the decades before Somalis started arriving in Lewiston. Full Uniform Crime Reports data (on which city-data.com bases its graph) going back to 1985 shows that Lewiston had a far higher crime rate in the years before Somalis started to arrive.

  • walter

    Bull

    Where non white immigrants come in droves so does the crime . Africans especially are racist towards whites.
    You libturds have screwed up Maine.

  • Average Joe

    Sorry Jim Cook but you’re not entirely right when you say crime did not go up since the mass immigration of Somalis into Lewiston began. The fact is violent crime did go up, property crime did dip down somewhat in the previous decade but has since risen back up in the last several years to just under it’s pre 2001 rates. While property crime is terrible it’s violent crime that has much more serious consequences for society. The above posted city data link shows that violent crime per 100,000 rose drastically during the first year of Somali immigration from 104.2 in 2000 when there were no Somalis to 141.6 in 2001 the first year of Somali immigration. Violent crime then rose throughout the decade reaching a high in 2007, then declined slightly in the latter part of the decade, however overall violent crime is up since the first Somalis came to Lewsiton particularly robberies from 28 in 2000 to 43 in 2012. The data doesn’t give a racial breakdown of perpetrators but I would almost guarantee that Somalis are overrepresented in the ranks of perpetrators. There have been many proven problems with Somali immigration, from gangs and members of the community seeking to join the ranks of terrorists groups to an over reliance on welfare and other social welfare programs that work to the detriment of the struggling American poor and the taxpayer. Anyone who advocates increased Somali immigration is an obvious fool.

    • You’re cherrypicking what came before, “Average Joe,” to just 2000. If you look at the long-term average before 2001, you’ll see non-Somali Lewiston had big, big crime problems, much bigger than Lewiston now.

      Look at this update, which bears out the truth that Lewiston, Maine had a much bigger crime problem BEFORE Somali immigrants arrived in town than it has had SINCE Somali immigrants came to town: http://irregulartimes.com/2014/11/18/did-somali-immigrants-really-plunge-lewiston-maine-into-crime-fact-check-says/ . You just can’t argue with the numbers.

      • Average Joe

        There has been a general decrease in crime countrywide since the 1980s and 90s for a variety of reasons. The end of the “crack era”, police departments using complain statistics to target higher crime areas and even from one study the legalization of abortion in the early 70s have all contributed to declining crime rates nationwide. However as I’ve pointed out that decline has been arrested and violent crime rates have even risen in Lewiston Maine during the decade of mass Somali immigration demonstrating at the very least a correlation between Somalis and crime. There have been numerous Somali American suicide bombers overseas and in 2013 the federal government was looking at possible ties between Al Shabab militants in Somalia and Kenya and the Somali American community in Maine. There are even documented ties from Somali street gangs in Portland to the Boston bomber brothers. As I ve stated the existence of criminal and terrorist Somali American gangs is well documented. Check out this linked LA times article for more info. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boston-bombing-gun-20140513-story.html

  • Average Joe

    There has been a general decrease in crime countrywide since the 1980s and 90s for a variety of reasons. The end of the “crack era”, police departments using complain statistics to target higher crime areas and even from one study the legalization of abortion in the early 70s have all contributed to declining crime rates nationwide. However as I’ve pointed out that decline has been arrested and violent crime rates have even risen in Lewiston Maine during the decade of mass Somali immigration demonstrating at the very least a correlation between Somalis and crime. There have been numerous Somali American suicide bombers overseas and in 2013 the federal government was looking at possible ties between Al Shabab militants in Somalia and Kenya and the Somali American community in Maine. There are even documented ties from Somali street gangs in Portland to the Boston bomber brothers. As I ve stated the existence of criminal and terrorist Somali American gangs is well documented. Check out this linked LA times article for more info. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boston-bombing-gun-20140513-story.html

    • Jim Cook

      With all due respect, that has got to be the shiftiest argumentation I’ve read in some time. I notice you’re not even talking about Somali immigrants in Lewiston any more. You’re talking about Somali immigrants in a different American city, and then you’re talking about people in Somalia in Africa.

      • Average Joe

        1) I specifically mentioned the Somali American community in Maine which really only exists in Lewiston and to a lesser extent Portland. I made no mention of other Somali American communities in Columbus Ohio or Minnesota although they have the same high violent crime rates and sky high rates of public assistance as the community in Maine. 2) Calling my argument “shitty” does not refute it. I noticed you didn’t even comment on the LA Times article which mentions the existence of Somali street gangs in Maine with terrorist ties. You have also failed to explain why Lewiston bucked the nationwide trend of declining violent crime rates during the decade of Somali immigration. Look at the city of Los Angeles for example during the same decade, it has shown a consistent drop in violent crime from the year 2000 as has the nation as a whole, Lewiston on the other hand has not, it’s violent crime rate dropped until the year 2000 then it rose during the past decade to where it has since stayed. There is a correlation between Somali immigration in Lewiston Maine and violent crime, it’s that simple.

        • Jim Cook

          I didn’t call it “shitty.” I called it “shifty,” as in a shift. You have shifted observations from Lewiston, Maine to all sorts of other places, cherry-picking observations to fit your preconceptions.

          But if you’re going to shift, at least get it right. Crime in Minneapolis is DOWN, not UP, since Somali immigrants came to town: http://irregulartimes.com/2014/11/23/are-the-racists-right-is-minneapolis-more-violent-since-somali-immigrants-arrived/

          If the existence of an article noting that Somali-American criminals exist proves Somali Americans are awful, then the existence of an article noting that white criminals exist proves that white Americans are awful. Neither is true. Both are examples of cherry-picking relying on confirmation bias. If you go looking for examples of Somalis who commit crimes, congratulations, you’ll find them, because members of every group commit crimes. If you go looking for examples of whites who commit crimes, congratulations, you’ll find them, too. Since the arrival of Somalis, the crime rate has not increased. It just hasn’t. Period.

          I encourage everyone to go to UCRdatatool.gov to verify that the Lewiston property crime rate is down between 2001, the year Somali immigrants began to arrive, and 2012, the last year available in the dataset. The Lewiston violent crime rate is the same in 2001 and 2012. Both rates are FAR lower than the rates of the 1980s and 1990s, when Lewiston was lily white. Over the same period, the violent crime rate in next-door Augusta, Maine — which does NOT have a significant Somali population — has doubled, and the property crime rate has gone up by over 20%. By your logic, this would mean that white people are a menace. The violent crime rate in Bangor, Maine has gone up during the period too, and there aren’t a significant number of Somali immigrants there. Oh, those evil White people again! Biddeford, Maine has seen crime rates boom during the same period. No big Somali immigration there. My goodness, by your logic, the crackers are out to get my children! Waterville, Maine (no significant Somali immigration) has seen violent crime rates triple during the same period while property crime rates have risen by about 10%. Waterville is only 1.1% Black/African-American according to the latest available Census figures (factfinder.census.gov). It’s 94% White. Is the Whiteness of the Watervillians making them Watervillains?

          Or does all that not count because it doesn’t fit your cherrypicking?

          • Jim Cook

            Crime rates are down in Columbus Ohio, too, over the period in which Somali immigrants came to the city. The population of Somali immigrants compared to the population of Columbus overall is a drop in the bucket.

            It’s funny you should mention Columbus, Ohio. I lived in Columbus for a few years, right in the heart of the city. I taught chess to school-kids, including my son, who went to school with the Somali immigrants. I remember beautiful, kind, open-hearted people.

            • jon magneili

              ok we get it jim ,you’re a typical anti white liberal (who is white).According to you black populations bring crime down.In all actuality the problem in this country isn’t the black or brown or blue immigrants ,its the white liberals who encourage and enable all this crap……..Your kind is becoming more and more despised than anything else.

              • J Clifford

                Wait a minute, Jon, and slow down, because I’m getting confused.

                You’re accusing Jim of being anti-white, and being white, but then you say Jim’s “kind” is becoming more and more despised, and that the people who are the problem are white, so doesn’t that make you anti-white? If so, why do you think being anti-white is crap, when it’s what you’re doing?

                I’m not saying I agree with your conclusions, or even your premises, Jon, but I’d like to understand the structure of this argument you’re making first, so could you help me out with this?

  • Nick Toto

    Dude I don’t give a rats ass what statistics say. I live in auburn and am from Portland. This place is a sewer. Lewiston is close to a third world country. You can read all the data you want but until you go walk down those streets I don’t want to hear it. The place is a sewer. It’s never been a great area and now we have freeloaders and drunks and drug addicts making it worse then ever.

  • New Lewiston Resident

    Hey Jim, Thanks for this website. I’m going to be moving to Lewiston in a few months. I want to stay anonymous, so I’d rather not explain what field I’m in, but essentially I had a choice between richer, nicer, but less diverse cities across the country and Lewiston with it’s Somali population. I chose Lewiston because of it’s diversity (and it’s proximity to Portland and Montreal, to be fair). But so many people I speak to love to take a crap on Lewiston. I’m sure it has it’s issues, but I also saw this trend on City Data and being a data driven person, I couldn’t explain why people are talking so negatively about this city. If you compare it to other cities in Maine, it’s 4th or 5th or something like that, and Maine as a state has some of the lowest crime rates in the country. I hate to call the Lewiston haters racist, but the data do not support this conclusion that it’s this third world place with super high crime, so I really am left scratching my head. Maybe I will find out more when I move there, but in any case, it’s nice to see people like yourself offering a more objective analysis…

    • chad kinney

      Lewiston downtown has actually seen a resurgence of new businesses especially in the old Bates Mill complex. They have made and continue to make remarkable improvements to the infrastructure. In 2007 Lewiston was named an all american city which only one other city has that distinction, Auburn!! L/A is one of only a few cities in Maine that has seen any significant economic growth in the past 4 years and continues to this day. Yes, the downtown Lisbon street buildings needs to be refurbished, but try to remember a lot of these buildings are over 100 years old. The suburbs of Lewiston are just as safe or safer than any comparable sized city in Maine and are beautifully maintained for the most part. Bates college has grown tremendously in the last 10 years and is one of the finest little Ivy schools in the nation. Portland people seem to be the ones commenting on L/A’s shortfalls because Lewistons population has increased by 10% since 2010 and with the possible collaboration with incorporating Auburn and Lewiston into one city it could become the most populated in Maine and Portland doesn’t want to loose that status. I love L/A and always will.

  • Charlie Cameron

    I am in a classroom everyday at a school with 30% ELL students (English Language Learners)in Lewiston, Maine. AND I grew up in Lewiston, now 52 years of age. I can tell you first hand there has been a shameful change in the community. Even at the elementary level parents are afraid to send their kids to school for fear of them being beaten up or worse. I would not live in that community, and don’t feel comfortable when I have to go into downtown Lewiston around the Superintendent’s office, (near Kennedy park). Back in the day the Franco Americans used to work and live in this community. They were the backbone of Lewiston Auburn, working in the shoe shops and owned the Mom and Pop stores. Everyone knew each other and you couldn’t get away with much. We had party lines, everyone spoke French…ahhh, those were the days.

    • Charlie Cameron

      The data doesn’t show the heart and soul of what the community was…or is. Talk to people who live there. It is a depressed, dangerous place to live, comparatively to the rest of Maine.

    • Jim Cook

      Charlie,

      In 1985, when you were a youngster in Lewiston, before Somalis began to immigrate, the violent crime rate stood at 553.8 violent crimes per year per 100,000 population. The property crime rate stood at 7,262.9 property crimes per year per 100,000 population.

      In 2013, the most recent year for which data is available, the violent crime rate stood at 244.4 violent crimes per year per 100,000 population. That’s less than half the 1985 rate. The property crime rate stood at 3,341.3 property crimes per year per 100,000 population. That’s less than half the 1985 rate.

      Source: FBI Crime in the United States reports.

      You’re right that the data describing actual trends don’t reflect your heart and soul. You might want to examine the latter.

      • M. Acheson

        Jim,

        Just a couple of food for thought questions for you. If an individual is assaulted in Lewiston by a Somali but (a) doesn’t report it to police, (b) reports it to their school but the school handles it internally without engaging police, or (c) reports it to police but declines to make a statement out of fear for reprisal, would any of those situations appear in the crime data you’ve cited? I personally know a couple of folks in Lewiston and Portland who have been victimized by Somalian and Sudanese immigrants but did not report it because they weren’t grievous offenses and they didn’t want anyone to have the perception that they were racist or anti-immigrant.

        I think we can all agree that Mogadishu Somali is an extremely violent and dangerous place. Is it reasonable to assume that first generation immigrants who were born and raised in a place where people routinely killed each other for food and where young women’s vagina’s were sewn up to prevent pre-marital sex (Pharaonic circumcision) could potentially bring some of those experiences and social mores with them to their new home?

        I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in Portland and Lewiston for work and have built up a body of first hand experiences that lead me to believe that the Somali immigrants integration with those communities have not been terribly successful, and that racial violence, bullying, and a lack of respect for women are just a few of the outcomes. I’m certainly not prepared to dispute the crime data you’ve provided because the numbers are what they are, but can you at least admit that perhaps there is more going on in terms of racial, cultural, and religious friction than these numbers suggest?

        Matthew

        • frank

          Jim believes that miracles happen and third world savages/medieval cultures can turn in few years into 21st century people!!

        • Jim Cook

          M, thanks for writing. I will grant that it is possible that hidden data that no one has collected would, possibly, contradict data that has been collected. But given the human capacity toward confirmation bias, I am inclined to grant more credit to collected data than to anecdotes or references to unconfirmed possibilities. Any anecdote we obtain comes from an unavoidably limited view… And that goes for my anecdotal experience, too.

  • Charles Manning

    It’s clear that most if not all who take issue with the statistics believe that Somalis are inferior to whites with respect to inherent traits that cause involvement with the criminal justice system. I strongly disagree.

    Belief among non-Somalis that Somalis are inferior makes it harder for Somalis to avoid involvement in our criminal justice system: they must be more likely to be suspected of crime, more likely to be arrested, less able to make bail, less able to hire competent legal counsel, and likely to be judged in court by person who deem them inferior. Additionally, Somalis undoubtedly are less wealthy than non-Somalis, because, among other things, their ancestors had less wealth to pass on to them; because they entered Maine society less well educated than non-Somalis and encountered language barriers; and because on average, as immigrants, they’re younger than non-Somalis in the U.S.

    I suspect that arrest, conviction, and incarceration rates among Somalis, like those of Blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans everywhere in the U.S., are higher because of circumstances like those I’ve mentioned, not inherent racial or ethnic traits. The higher rates among Somalis could exist despite the general decline in crime you’ve properly cited. Many of the commenters seem to be taking issue not with your argument that the overall crime rate is lower, but with the perception – which is understandable, but not logical – that you’re claiming there’s a low crime rate among Somalis.

    If my suspicion about the crime rate for Somalis is correct, increased awareness among non-Somalis of why the higher rates occur among Somalis would make it more likely that institutional changes could be brought about to enable Somalis, like other immigrant groups, to become more like the non-Somali population with respect to involvement in the criminal justice system. So I hope you’ll look at whether there is indeed a Somali/non-Somali disparity, with respect both to involvement in the criminal justice system and to causative factors like those I’ve mentioned. You could present that evidence to your readers, along with suggestions for institutional changes to deal with the problem constructively. On the other hand, if the involvement of Somalis in the criminal justice system is equal to or less than the involvement of other groups, that fact certainly needs to be publicized.

  • John Blackman

    Go to Maine Medical Center, place is flooded with them! Housekeeping Dept. Go into your room and steal anything not nailed down, parking attendants rifle through your car, get it backed stripped. Had my car back end dented in, didn’t see it until I got home. MMC allows them to pray when the urge strikes them, walk down hallways all you see are Somali butts in the air, like an obstacle course, every other employee has scheduled breaks, they can take 20 minute prayer breaks whenever God talks to them or when they don’t feel like working which ever comes first!
    Portland has a program that they will ” cosign” a car loan up to $8500 for them. They are truly a scurge on what used to be Maine. Hope they change the sign at the border to ” THE WAY LIFE USED TO BE”!

  • Tony

    I live in Ohio, home to roughly 30,000+ people of Somali origin, and I can attest to the problems that they cause in the face of belligerance and failure to acclimate. My question to Maine residents is, why don’t you use force when faced with it? I carry a .45 at all times and have never had to use it, but if I was assaulted by punks then I wouldn’t hesitate to us pull it from the holster. One one occasion, 3 Somali youths attempted to rob me at gunpoint thinking I would just wilt under fear… WRONG! I beat one of them senseless and the others just ran away in fear. Needless to say, they are cowards who anticipate people not reacting with force. Start protecting yourselves e.g. mace, stun guns, bats, or guns, do whatever it takes to make your posture apparent. Here in Ohio, the Somalis mainly victimize each other, which is quite fine by us because it’s like a disease irradicating itself! Good luck to you guys up there in the great Atlantic Northeast!

    • Tony,

      The last place I lived before moved to Maine in 2009 was in the inner city of Columbus, in the neighborhoods where a number of beautiful Somali people also lived (Columbus has the second-largest Somali population in the country after Minneapolis, according to this Ohio public safety document: http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/HLS0075.pdf ). While no one would deny that there surely must be some Somali immigrants who have committed crimes, since members of all cultural groups commit crimes, crime statistics for Columbus — http://ucrdatatool.gov/ — show a decrease in the crime rate since Somali arrival.

      • Charles Manning

        It seems no one took seriously my March 14 comment. Obviously there’s bigotry and hypocrisy in play. But has anyone examined the crime rate among Somalis to see if it’s higher than the overall crime rate in the various cities mentioned in this thread? The most solid proof that your critics are wrong would be if the rate of criminal involvement among Somalis is equal to or lower than the overall average.

        • Jim Cook

          Charles,

          Hi. I did read your earlier comment, and think it’s a great idea in the abstract. Unfortunately, crime reports do not include systematic observation of national origin, so that data just can’t be gathered from existing sources.

          • Charles Manning

            I think there’s evidence that among blacks in general, the involvement in the criminal justice system is much higher than the overall average, or among whites. Even conservatives are beginning to recognize that this is one of the great challenges of our time. Surely someone could compare blacks in general to Somalis.

  • Tenor

    Wow, a report scrawls a homemade graph so we “know” the troof !!

  • Destiny

    Since the somalis have moved into Auburn all my friends and family have been getting jumped and im personally getting pretty sick of it. I cant walk out the door with out one cat calling me or trying to touch me. Its rediculous and unnessecary. If they came to our country and were let in they should have some respect for us because we were kind enough to allow them to come here. Im not racist. I hate everyone equally but this shit is not needed. I should beable to feel safe in my own community. Its hard enough being called a faggot or an emo kid let along having people come up and grab your ass for no reason but to be a pervert. I think it needs to be rethought and if they arnt going to respect what we as americans have built then they should go back..

    • Amanda

      I agree. I was happy for them when they got a chance at a new life, but soon learned what kind of drama they were adding to the drama that was already in Lewiston. I have been groped and grabbed myself. I’m disgusted.

  • Amanda

    Just do yourself a favor and avoid Lewiston. The racism and bigotry sucks, and being attacked and almost raped by Somalis sucks and made me leave. Lewiston is not a a good place. I grew up just across the river and I don’t ever want to live there again. Years of crime and drugs everywhere may be for some of you, but I don’t want my children to go through what I did.

  • Finn

    Wow, I’m from Europe (Finland) and Somalis aren’t that popular here either for the same reasons they’re taking flak in Lewiston. Even here Somalis are recognized as the most stubborn, demanding and self-entitled immigrant group.

    In Finland citizenship is mentioned in some statistics, so we can gather data and compare how certain immigrant groups fare here. Somalis especially are over-represented in certain statistics: perpetrators of rape (12 times more likely to be a Somali), murder, violent assault, gang violence (gangs target especially Finns), welfare dependency, unemployment (75 % for men, 86 % for women in 2014 study), etc. Note that some Somalis have Finnish citizenship, so they are counted in the statistics as “Finns”.

    The statistics in Finland and in Europe are pretty consistent. I don’t understand people calling others “racists” and “bigots” for just pointing out that this is not favorable development for the country or community and that there are clear differences in how different immigration groups manage to integrate into the society.

    It’s not about how different people look, it is more about the culture (Somalis are Muslims and nomads), for example Nepalese and Chinese in Finland are almost always employed, although they don’t look Finnish at all. Somalis on the other hand keep their women under the veil and outside the society. Men themselves, as nomads usually, don’t work unless they have to. They let the cattle graze the area while sitting around chewing khat-leaves. When the cattle has grazed the area bare, they move to the next region. It’s just that this time the cattle is their big families and grazing areas are the welfare structures in the western world. This is what actually happened as I understand that Somalis were first settled near Atlanta. They didn’t come all the way to Lewiston to work, but to graze.

    Good luck with your new citizens, but whatever you do, don’t try to accommodate or placate them, because then there will be no end to it. We’ve seen where it leads in Finland, because clearly nothing is enough for a Somali and if something is wrong with their life, they think it is community’s responsibility to fix their life.

  • frank

    Jim Cook is one of the multitude of people that think importing third world cultures is great for this Nation, in spite of the facts that they add absolutely nothing to the community and go straight on welfare, causing more poverty and straining public finances. The graph and data show clearly that crime violent crime, went up, after a downward trend, but for sone reason he refuses to see it, just like liberals in general refuse to see the problem in the black neighborhoods. Recently, Baltimore was a tragic example. The reason behind the resettlement of backward cultures in our Country has nothing to do with diversity, but more to do with the larger issue of voting. They, like the millions of illegals, will be more prone to vote for Democrats. That was the intended consequence of the immigration reform act during the Kennedy years. Was well thought .. With a purpose. Calling it “racism” or “bigotry”, without having the discussion we need to have sbout benefits, social conflicts, economic impact denotes simply stupidity and intellectual dishonesty. We are slowly transforming America into a third world shit hole. Pure and simple truth.

    • Actually, the graph and data show clearly that the average crime rate in Lewiston before Somalis immigrated was higher than after they immigrated, Frank. What’s also clear is your equation of a culture other than yours with “shit hole.”

      • frank

        Which Graph are you looking at? LOL. Look better that goes up again from 2001. Besides there is a larger stat about the “benefit’ of having imported third world population. Welfare, crime, and MANY are joining ISIS. One single crime from an immigrant, not supposed to be here, is one too many!! Fantastic! What did happen to the promise of taking immigrants with “skills” and “high educational attainments’? Mystery. That’s all wee have been hoping for years: third world uneducated poor…that once get here go straight on welfare!!!! We never had these “homegrown” Islamic fanatics in the US…and people like you want more! Great!! on the :shit hole” note..what would you call Somalia? The cradle of civilization? Are you on heavy drugs?

        • Jim Cook

          Look before 2001. In the 1980s and 1990s, long before anyone of Somali descent moved to Lewiston, the city had a much higher crime rate.

          • Charles Manning

            Jim Coodk — You guys have my sympathy. Looks like the people I probably should call bigots (but I’m too polite to call them that) will never be convinced. But how many Somalis have come on here to let us know what they think? Do they have someone analogous to MLK who can clear things up? MLK explained the plight of blacks who were mostly descendants of slaves in this country, which resulted in at least a significant number of whites realizing that the problem originates outside the skins of the oppressed.

            • frank

              read my comment to Jim “Crook”…idiot..

              • Charles Manning

                (My apology to Jim Cook for the typo in spelling his name.) Frank, I agree with you in one respect. The overall statistics seem irrefutable, but there’s at least an argument that the Somalis as a group have a greater involvement with the legal system (detentions, arrests, prosecutions, etc.) than whites. Somalis are blacks, and unfortunately we don’t have statistics – at least none that I’ve seen – proving that they do or don’t have a higher involvement than non-Somali blacks. I contend that even if Somalis and blacks in general are the same, the problem isn’t with inherent racial characteristics, but at least to some extent originates in actions taken by those who have controlled and continue to control our country, who are almost exclusively white, to oppress people of color. I don’t believe, and I challenge you to prove, that a Somali newborn is less capable than a white newborn of becoming a loving, caring, intelligent, patriotic citizen of the U.S. I’m willing to look at how adult Somalis might have been adversely affected by circumstances in which they grew up.

              • frank

                Challenge accepted..and i am going to have fun. Here we are again with this “white privilege” obsession, which has no basis or evidence whatsoever. Please EXPLAIN ME how “white privilege” or “white oppression” impeded you from being successful, going to school, get a job, college etc. I am curious. Please provide some examples of “white oppression” that we have now in 2015 America or Europe. Last time i walked around I didn’t see any blacks in chains or with collars or in plantations being whipped or forced into slave labor. Last time i checked millions of dollars have been spent for years in “minority” neighborhoods with miserable results. Last time checked, EVERY major city with a minority majority was/is, by all measures, an hotbed of crime, corruption, inefficiency. From Detroit to Baltimore through New Orleans and so on, please, tell me how is “white oppression” at fault for it. EXPLAIN ME how white oppression voted the first (incompetent) black President in US history. You would agree that without the white votes we would have never had that incompetent idiot in the WH. More over, EXPLAIN ME how’s possible that 98% of blacks voted en masse for Obama. If that is not “tribal” voting..i don’t know what it is: doesn’t matter who is in the WH as long is black!!! Explain me, why is that every single Nation in Africa has received and still getting food aid and billions in foreign aid and, decades have passed, they are still shit holes. ONE EXAMPLE?Explain me how South Africa, once economically stable ad thriving, once taken over by the indigenous people..turned into a hell hole (just like Zimbabwe did years back). AND this is the bigger picture in regards to Africans in general! You said is not inherent to race…i say is inherent to a culture which roots back in Africa, where civilization is still at the beginning. White oppression? Just laughing my ass off..PROVE IT!! Do you now of any other Government system that is better than what we have know? SHOW IT TO ME! I will also tell you why there are no official statistics of the Government on how immigrants affect communities, crime rate etc. Because they don’t want to provide them,and probably is not collected at all!! BUT, the Govt can tell you how many color tv’s are in households ..or how many times a week we eat meat!! Funny ain’t it? Doesn’t take a genius to understand that IF you place people from primitive cultures into a 2015 civilization…you have a disaster. It’s like placing a toddler in an airplane cockpit and have him to fly it. Total nonsense! They do not assimilate, they do not learn our laws, and do not care. Consequently we have honor killings, female genitalia mutilations and all the other good things o fa barbaric culture, not to mention the Islamic ones. AND we don’t even make them learn English, not to be insensitive. Apply the same to other immigrants, un-vetted, unskilled, uneducated, repeat. If this is not an attempt to plunge America into a third world hell hole.

              • ttwith

                Those who control are almost 99%Jewish (Middle eastern) Not White.

              • Charles Manning

                “Please EXPLAIN ME how ‘white privilege’ or ‘white oppression’ impeded you from being successful, going to school, get a job, college etc.”

                Just the opposite, Frank. “White privilege” allowed me to get college degrees and employment. I’m an elderly white man who got all the benefits of a middle-class upbringing in “white” America.

                The proof that blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans are oppressed in this country is the statistical comparisons of how well off they are compared to people like me. By virtually any measure of success in life, those groups come up short: income, wealth, educational achievement, involvement in the criminal justice system, education, family integrity, environmental quality, access to medical care, health, length of life, participation in prestigious occupations, and access to lawyers from their own groups. The only possible exceptions are achievement as players in sports (which I attribute to that being one of the few occupations open to minorities without discrimination), and length of life of Hispanics.

                Even if one grants that some forms of overt discrimination in the past no longer occur, the lingering effects of discrimination are obvious, and appear to have become worse in recent years. If you believe systemic racism, and its continuing effects, don’t account for the racial and ethnic disparities in the U.S., your only explanation has to be that Blacks, Native Americans, and Hispanics aren’t born with the inherent human qualities white people are born with. That’s pure racism, spoken or unspoken.

              • frank

                Mr.Manning, white man. EXPLAIN ME how “white privilege” helped get you into college. Did you go over a black candidate because of your skin color? You had all the “privileges”? What privilege did you get that your parents or yourself didn’t deserve because of hard work and study? Are you on drugs Mr. Manning? At an old age is not an healthy things to do. The proof that you mention is not a proof of discrimination!! OMG. It just shows that they underperform given the same identical condition of opportunities!! A “proof” would be the “denial” of that opportunity because of race!! Are you listening to your nonsense? If they come short in anything how is that a proof? That you just say it..doesn’t mean it is one! That, is not evidence!!! If other races are behind whites in school achievements how’s that your fault.? Did you prevent hem from going to school? If they go to jail…did you force them into one? Did you force minorities to commit crimes, white man? “Lingering effects of discrimination”? Give me ONE example of this lingering effect! ONE..how that works? Explain us!!!. Companies race against one another to hire minorities!! State, Federal and local governments are full of programs for “minorities”, from schooling to hiring practices!! Are you fucking kidding me? They can’t pass entrance tests they even lower the standards!!! Disgraceful!! Systemic racism is a “word” that is out there that has no basis whatsoever. It’s a genetic fault? Possible!1 Definitely it’s a cultural fault because the only thing that white idiots like yourself have done for this people is to make them believe that that they can’t make it by themselves. They need “some help”, would it be affirmative action or other “programs”. THAT is racism…in the face of “equality”…gtfoh!!

              • Charles Manning

                “If other races are behind whites in school achievements how’s that your fault.? Did you prevent hem from going to school? If they go to jail…did you force them into one? Did you force minorities to commit crimes, white man?”

                It’s my fault if I don’t do something to change the effects of discrimination that continue to keep non-whites down, relative to whites. If you’re white, you should realize what I’m saying, although your somewhat slipshod way of talking/writing makes me think you didn’t receive the kind of benefits I got from being white.

                Re-read my comments. And yes, I do believe appropriate affirmative action is called for, although exactly what that should be is open to debate.

              • frank

                Again, making comments without evidence. Let’s try one more time: give an example of how your whiteness discriminated any minority or an example on how the white system is oppressing minorities. . If you feel such about yourself, with no evident facts, then empty your bank account and give all of your money to an “oppressed” minority! Purge your sins!! Lol. But you don’t have examples, evidence.. Nothing. Tell you some pal, i work for a living, two jobs. My whiteness didn’t help me but hard work did snd i still struggle. Why? Because of my iwn fault.. Didn’t pursue higher education. Personal responsibility, if you have an idea if what it is. And i don’t blame others. The way you think is disgraceful and with no facts whatsover. I have been repeatedly ask you for examples and you haven’t been able to provide me one. What else can i say.

              • frank

                One more thought: affirmative action IS racist and basically tells minorities that they are inferior and they need a leg up in everything they do. Makes people not to work hard, like everyone else, in order to achieve a goal. If this in your twisted mind is justice and equal… Then you deserve to be called names. This is exactly the racism that minorities have fought decades ago… Just reversed.

              • Charles Manning

                Frank, you say, “[G]ive an example of how your whiteness discriminated any minority or an example on how the white system is oppressing minorities. . . . I have been repeatedly ask you for examples and you haven’t been able to provide me one.”

                I think I cited examples: “By virtually any measure of success in life, those groups come up short: income, wealth, educational achievement, involvement in the criminal justice system, education, family integrity, environmental quality, access to medical care, health, length of life, participation in prestigious occupations, and access to lawyers from their own groups.” I don’t know what would be an example of how my “whiteness” discriminated against anyone. It’s society in general, or specific people, who discriminate, not a racial characteristic like “whiteness.”

                What bothers me about your claims is the underlining implication that people who aren’t of your race, which I assume is white, are inherently inferior to people of your race. In other words, you refuse to recognize that any of the laws, rules, customs, attitudes, etc. of the ruling class in this country could be responsible for the examples I stated.

                The kindest thing I can say about how this country oppresses certain groups is that other nations and societies have done the same, or worse, all through history. That in no way excuses continuing oppression in this country.

                Your rhetoric demonstrates that your refusal to recognize reality leaves you feeling very frustrated. Please accept my condolences.

              • frank

                ..that’s evidence according to you…LMAO. “Society in general”…that means you don’t have none. Are you reading yourself? “the ruling class, the system, the laws” are responsible for the “examples” which you DID NOT PROVIDE. I think Alzheimer is kicking in old man!! Answer the other question: are you giving your wealth, acquired because of your whiteness, away to minorities, oppressed by your whiteness? Because if you are not..then you are an hypocrite. On the argument “people that are not my race..”…well, how do you define Africa and every Black run city in the US? A success? What about Latin America..what about Asia? Can you define a model of society that is superior, more functional, just and equal than the ones founded/created by people of my and your race? Please tell me an example in the world that we can follow, where everyone lives in harmony and there is no discrimination or oppression, like you call it. If you don’t have one, and you don’t, ..then i guess you just have to shut up. Rest my case…

              • Charles Manning

                Frank, my examples are valid, but Jim Cook also gave some at http://irregulartimes.com/2015/06/04/as-bill-oreilly-denies-white-privilege-frank-demands-evidence-of-racial-discrimination-here-it-is/. I’ve done plenty to help minorities, at considerable cost. I believe some European nations are “superior, more functional, just and equal” than the U.S. However, as I said, the U.S. doesn’t have a monopoly when it comes to discrimination against people of color.

                Don’t know if you’re for real, but your thinking is close to that of many of my relatives (living or dead), so I’m taking it seriously.

              • frank

                Which European Nation is more “equal” please tell me?The bankrupt Europe is about to fall, the Euro system is a failure. Health insurance for everyone is a money pit and ..the waves of uncivilized barbarians is plunging Europe into a Muslim hell hole. Did you miss the Charlie Hebdo shooting in France? And they have 6-7 millions if them..ready for Jihad, unassimilated and shariah craving. Are you missing the continuous provocation of extremist groups in Britain, which takes in millions of these backward barbarians, headed by this terrorist-friendly Anjem Choudari dude? You have no idea on how dark the future of civilization is, blinded by this “hate” for your own people and for what they have accomplished after centuries of struggles. Unfortunately, like i said, we won’t be able to see how this insane progressive ideas will lead to civil unrest. We are just beginning to see the signs.

              • Jim Cook

                Frank, see http://stats.oecd.org/ for systematic comparison of European countries to the United States, and you’ll find that in a number of measures of quality of life a number of European countries are doing better than the U.S..

          • frank

            I looked before 2001 and the crime was up years before, went down, Somalis moved in..went up again. Nice gain Lewiston!!Do you know how to read a damn graph? Why wold you accept a group of people with a backward culture that has nothing to do whatsoever in the civilized world? Again, just like most of the third world immigrants, they ended up on welfare and taking up resources…my TAX MONEY. Like we didn’t have enough problems with illegal immigration!! This is insanity. Period. And to the other idiot, Charles Manning, bigots? LOL. If not bigots you can use the liberal favorite word needed to shut down discussion, when you have no argument: racist!! Please explain what Somalis have to do with MLK! Now every black in Africa is entitled to come here in the US because of some MLK connection…really? So should we import third world INTO the united States and turn our Nation into a shit hole, just like Africa is? Are you out of your mind? Explain the last paragraph…doesn’t mean absolutely nothing..in English. LOL

            • J Clifford

              Frank, it seems that the town of Lewiston, Maine is engaged in what anthropologist Grant McCracken refers to as ‘displaced meaning’. The residents like to maintain a certain set of idealized perceptions about themselves and their values, but can’t maintain them in the present, so they ascribe them to a better time in the past, when everything was lovely. Oh, if it weren’t for those Somalis, they say, everything here would be perfect.

              This isn’t a rational assessment of history. It’s a way of avoiding a difficult reassessment of the cultural identitty of Lewiston, Maine when it doesn’t match certain disturbing facts.

              The fact, as you’ve clearly shown, is that Lewiston had big problems with crime long before Somali immigrants showed up. Residents like Frank can’t blame the Somalis for Lewiston’s long history of violent crime, because they need to past to be a Pleasantville.

            • Jim Cook

              1. It only went up for one of two crime statistics, and only slightly, and to levels nowhere near where they averaged before 2001, when Lewiston had no Somalis, and by 2011 was back down to where the crime rate was in 2001.

              2. The other crime statistic, which you utterly ignore, shows an unconditional decline since 2001.

              3 Both crime statistics show that the average crime rate is lower in the period since Somalis began to move to Lewiston than in the period before Somalis began to move to Lewiston.

              • frank

                You just don’t get it don’t you. The US “refugee” resettlement programs is a miserable failure. Placing third world backward cultures in the US has not worked and the communities are burdened with cost related to welfare and other “social” bs. Even the Mayor of Lewiston had to beg not to have more of these savages moving into his town. That’s a fact. These refugees…go on welfare. Look at the single crimes unit on city data, look at the data on assaults, robberies. But Lewiston is a small town…the percentage of “savages” is small compared to the rest of he population, thank God. Look at the largest groups of Somalis or ay other group of refugees: they all go on welfare milking the system with ZERO contribution to society. We continue on the path to the THIRD WORLD and you people just don’t get it. Now we want to resettle how many Syrians? And then we complain about “Americans” joining ISIS (what Americans?). Disgraceful. Guess 9/11, the Boston Marathon, Charlie Hebdo didn’t teach you people anything. Geniuses.

              • Jim Cook

                People said the same thing about the Irish and the “Polacks” a century ago. A century and a half ago, just down the road in the Maine town of Bath, a crowd burned a Catholic church to keep those scum away from the Real Americans.

                You know what you know, you judge how you judge, and it’s clear I’m not going to change your mind. But consider that you stand in a long line of people who have rejected newcomers as “savages.”

              • frank

                You fail to recognize that few decades later all the European were perfectly integrated into the American society. We have yet to integrate blacks…listen to your nonsense! Are you listening to the news mr Cook? The latest from Boston where, again, cultural enrichment was going to behead police officers. You people are insane. We are importing barbaric behavior that root back into medieval times and comparing those to Europeans that had an homogeneous development throughout history is pure ignorance! I judge based on facts and facts are right there in front of your eyes: race and religious conflicts. I suggest you take a look at the British news ad read the continuous enrichment that immigrants have brought to the UK. Have you been missing the Charlie Hebdo cultural diverse massacre? You guys have no idea of what these policies are doing to America and Europe. You’ll find that out when the next civil war will break out….

              • frank

                We agree to disagree on the conflicts that Lewiston is experiencing and the graph on violent crime, which you can’t absolutely read. Besides there is no data that the Govt provide on immigrant’s crime rates. You also should look at the largest Somali refugees groups in Minnesota, where clearly conflicts are a much bigger problem. You also fail to mention the failure of a program that allows people to go straight on welfare. Add the fact that most of these groups have individuals joining the Jihad..from the inside the US..you tell me where the good deal is. Just would like to know about this “enrichment”. Instead of taking engineers and doctors like Australia and New Zealand do..we take the ignorant, uneducated. Hell of a fucking deal. Keep being stupid white man…one day you will wake the fuck up.

              • J Clifford

                Frank, accusing another person of being unable to read a simple graph isn’t aggreeing to disagree. It’s being rude.

                You promised to substantiate your claims, but now you’re admitting that there isn’t any data to back them up. Accusing other people of being ignorant and uneducated when you can’t make an intelligent, fact-based argument to support your assertions won’t do.

                You’ve spent a lot of time covering your lack of evidence with the bluster of insults. Has it occurred to you that the negative reactions you get from people in your neighborhood isn’t because some of your neighbors are Somalis, but because you’re rude?

              • frank

                There is nio data provided by the government, but if you read news about Lewiston and the problems that their citizens are having with the cultural enriching community of Islamuc barbarians, yoy can guess why the trend goes up a little. The crime has been going down but even one more crime committed by one person that shouldn’t be here is one too many. Rude? I guess you mean “hate to hear the truth”. If liberals would care about the Country and fellow Americans as mush as they care about people that shouldn’t be here at all…we would be in a much better shape. We don’t have enough poor and people that struggle in America… we need more, and from backward cultures. Great thinking geniuses.

              • Jim Cook

                And there we have it. “The crime rate has been going down.” Thank you for acknowledging this truth. The rest of what you write is hearsay.

              • frank

                I meant in general, you moron. From the pre 2000 has been kept down with a slight spike up after that, but not at the levels of pre 2000! Good Lord! It is true that we don’t know for sure if the slight spike is due to immigrants.. But the data available on the 100000+ Somalis refugees probably explains it. Their resettlement has been a clear failure (US census Bureau) . Again, bringing medieval minded people in the 2015 America, or Europe, has been, predictably, a mess. They can’t read and write , low skilled, straight on welfare. More. Difficulties in assimilation, which is no longer required (apparently we have to assimilate to immigrant cultures now) and let’s not forget the surge of Mosques and attached Islamic radicalism, and crime, female mutilation. Why don’t you comment on that!!! Again, even few crimes, because of unnecessary immigration, are few too many. The fundamental question here is the incompatibility of cultures. Thanks to people like you and Manning in the Government , we are increasing the number of poor and creating immigrants ghettos. Congratulations! You achieved the so called “diversity”!! Happy?

              • frank

                You and the likes like you fail to understand that trying to assimilate barbaric cultures to our Western values on pedophilia, women rights, human trafficking etc doesn’t happen in a month or two or even in a generation! Do you understand the concept of why we call these countries the “Third world” ? If you do then what makes you think that Third World will adapt to America or Europe with the snap of a finger and without conflicts? Tell you this, these people understand quick on how stupid we are and take advantage of our welfare quite rapidly! They learn quick on how to use at their advantage concepts like “prejudice” and “racism”. Remember the Abu Kassim Jeilani case? Somali refugee.. Oops.. Waving a machete while walking in the streets? He was shot and killed by the police after being tazered a dozen times and still assaulting the officers with the weapon. Guess what happened after.The grievance industry, in the name of new add ons kike The Somali Justice advocacy center, the Somali resources aid associates and the Confederation of Somali Community . Guess what they did? SCREAMING CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION!! (REALLY?) They denounced the shooting claiming that “we are taxpayers” (??? Half not working and the other half on low wages paying zero.. Lol). I’ll spare you stories of honor killing, femal mutilation. Just don’t be more ridiculous than what you already are folks…

              • frank

                No insults, btw. Just unerlining the stupidity. And evidence? Are you denying that our refugees go straight on welfare and , especially in the Islamic community, many become, or are already, radicalized? May be you need to look more at the news pal.

              • Jim Cook

                Frank, I have looked at the crime rates in Minnesota. See here — http://irregulartimes.com/2015/01/31/after-somali-immigrants-arrived-in-minneapolis-did-crime-change-differently-than-in-other-minnesota-cities-fact-check/ . They also fail to support your prejudice.

  • Jim Cook

    Frank, you asked for evidence of white privilege and discrimination against black people in the United States. Here it is: http://irregulartimes.com/2015/06/04/as-bill-oreilly-denies-white-privilege-frank-demands-evidence-of-racial-discrimination-here-it-is/

  • Maine crumbling

    Lewiston is a nightmare. 4 white teen girls were raped last month by Somolians, and the media won’t touch it.

    • frank

      You know what Jim Cook should do? Sell his nice house in his probably safe neighborhood and move to the Somali side of Lewiston to get a taste of diversity.. Wonder why liberals talk, talk and don’t walk the walk..

      • Jim Cook

        Frank, I’ve lived plenty of places in my life, including places with high crime rates. When I lived in Columbus, my son went to public school with the children of Somali immigrants. You’re right that I don’t live in Lewiston, although I have visited Lewiston multiple times. Fortunately, the discussion at hand does not hinge on personality — not mine, not yours. It hinges on crime statistics.

        • frank

          …..people from Lewiston and any other place complain and where they moved in large numbers there is conflict.. Trying to turn 3rd world populations into 2015 civilized, human right lovers and law abiding citizens, doesn’t work and it never will. Dearborn it’s another example, among the others, of liberal failed policies. Immigration is out control, bureaucracy and corruption flourishes under these policies, and money fills the pocket of so called “civil right” groups and “sympathetic” politicians. Vote merchants, immigration pimps, taxpayers money wasted…it’s the Eldorado for some people in Wahington DC and a nightmare for us, common citizens. Fact.

          • Jim Cook

            You’re telling me what’s inside your head. No offense, but what’s inside your head and what can be observed in the world outside your head are not necessarily the same thing. That’s why this discussion does not hinge on what’s inside your head, or what’s inside my head. It hinges on crime statistics.

            • frank

              That’s the real world mr. Cook. The world of people going on welfare..the world of the Charlie Hebdo..the world of the Bostin Marathon bombing..9/11…refugees joining ISIS…spreading Jihadist teaching from inside our nations. These are REAL mr. Snowhite..i don’t know which world YOU live in. Time to wake the fuck up.

              • Jim Cook

                In the real world, you are thousands of times more likely to kill yourself with a coronary from eating too many hamburgers. Go find yourself some cause-of-death stats for some useful perspecting. The Centers for Disease Control is a good source.

              • frank

                In the real world i don;t need a=other add-ons that will kill me! What is it that you do not understand mr>cok. Don’ we have enough problem within our Nation? Do we need to import more. Are you really that stupid? If you like the 3rd world that much why don’t you pack you shit and move in one of those shit holes?

  • GrimmTale

    @Jim Cook – You don’t think Somali’s drive a car, take the bus, or ride a bicycle? Because that’s what you’re saying if you believe HIGH spikes in close neighboring towns which have witnessed crime rates doubling or higher since the Somali injection but, ignore that – this crime spike is NOT the result of this injection. Let’s be real here – if there’s nothing in a poverty stricken town to steal, mug, rob, assault – you go to the next town which has affluent (or anything better than in your own town) residents. It’s something anyone with any sense of logic can figure out. Beautiful Maine is falling victim to the effects of wayward immigration, and it will be too late before anything is done to save her. Pity really.

  • frank

    Phone keyboard..sorry

  • frank

    what is that you don’t understand about third world and backward failed cultures not being obviously compatible with the West mr.Cook? It is obvious that attempt of some politicians to flood the Nation with voters that will elect the same people in perpetuity. The poorer and less educated ..the better!

  • sunshine

    If you love the Somalis so much, then move into their neighborhood, spend time with them, and really immerse yourself in their rich and vibrant culture. Nah…you won’t do that. You’ll just whine about racism because how DARE Americans have a negative opinion about foreigners? Maybe if we had been consulted on whether or not we wanted to import millions of violent, incompatible foreigners, this might go a little more smoothly. But nobody asked us, and now we are being FORCED to foot the bill for our replacements, the people that are gladly destroying American culture and American people. Yes, that means WHITE CHRISTIANS. I AM a racist and am not ashamed of it. I learned that from all this vibrant diversity because it all hates white people.

    If you want to donate your money to these people, go ahead. But when other Americans are being forced, while actual Americans are wanting, it’s disgusting and YOU should be ashamed of yourself and your anti-white hatred. You can hate yourself and whites, but you will NOT browbeat and attempt to shame the rest of us into hating ourselves, and our ancestors. You should be ashamed, you and your ilk make me want to vomit. Here’s hoping you get all the diversity you can stomach, scumbag.

    • frank

      It’s a fact that the forced immigration of Somali refugees has resulted to be a failure, hogh unemployment, welfare and hundreds joining Isis. When, will liberals wake the fuck up and quit flooding the Nation with primitive, backward failed cultures? Thus obsession of liberalism, dut to mostly an insane “white” guilt and false “progressivism” is ruining our Western civilizations, from Europe to North America.

    • Jim Cook

      It is not hatred of whites to point out that crime rates have gone down, not up, since immigrants from Somalia moved to Lewiston.

      • Charles Manning

        Jim Cook, I appreciate your letting folks like frank and sunshine write on your site. Although I often wonder if they’re real people. Anyway, you guys are not only willing to say what needs to be said, but to stand up in a civilized way to outrageous criticism. Keep it up!

        • frank

          I am very real mr. Manning. Sometimes i wonder if you are for real. Its a fact that overall crime rates in the US have gone down. It’s true and a fact also that crime is still a problem in the minority communities and denying is just flat out idiotic. It’s true that the experiment of reintegration og 100k Somalis has failed, plenty of data on the Minnesota disaster. Lewiston is a small drop in the ocean of bs. You guys are as blind as a President that speaks out about a fake police brutality ckaim, speaks out in defense of criminal behavior like..Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, Eric Garner etc…pardons drug dealers, doesn’t want to say ” Islamic Terrorism” …and says ZERO word on Kate Steinle murder..takes 5 days to lower a flag after the murder of 5 servicemen…while takes few hours to disgracefully rainbow color the White House. At least have the decency of some objectivity folks. On the comments of ” letting me write on your blog”..at least you haven’t scraped off the 1st amendment from the page…

  • john doe

    True fact: As of 2014, 82% of the Somalians in Maine are criminals.
    True fact: 41% of the Somalians in Maine are here illegally.
    True fact: Somalians in Maine do not like the white folk and are taught to turn their heads and to disrespect us.

  • Rich

    Hilarious. If you don’t know by now maine’s main cities are slowly finishing up, well what can ya say? Portland has had a huge growth in the black population from about 2.7% to 7% over a decade. That will only grow and so will crime, anti police attitudes, muggings, shootings. Schools that were fine will suddenly go to garbage. It never changes. As far as Lewiston goes, well, count on that one too. It is basically unheard of to have blacks come in any numbers and actually create a better environment. Are numbers being played with here? Even if they are or not, the TRUTH will come out and Maine will slowly be on the pages of a place not to go to as the great wave of Somalians imported by lovely amnesty types, marxists, so called churches and others sound the death knell for sleepy Maine. Hate to say it but truth is truth. Does not mean all blacks are doing it but too many are and as usual somehow white police will be blamed.. You can only kiss ass so much on blacks. They still hate you. Oh and obama sucks… no shock… Just wait till whites become a REAL minority everywhere.. Oh the fun will just begin.. Kids and grandkids coming up it will be a nightmare Unless immigration and political correctness change radically… In the meantime, liberal whiteys will mysteriously disappear from all these cities in due time.. It never changes.. Hey, anyone want a one way bus ticket to Ferguson or Baltimore these days? Run, whitey, Run!

    • frank

      Damn right. This ridiculous show off of stats and graph doesn’t show one thing…one truth. Wherever the black undertow has appeared ..things turned quickly into shit.

    • I have linked to the sources of this information so that you can verify it for yourself. The state of your values, independent of facts, shines through your words perfectly clearly.

      • Matthew

        Jim,

        I know you’re a data guy, which is good. So am I. What do St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans, Detroit, and Washington D.C. have in common? Extremely high crime rates–so high that four of them are rated in the top 50 most violent cities worldwide(1). What else do they have in common? You fill in the blanks.

        Another interesting point of data is the positive correlation between low IQs and criminal behavior. Sociologists and criminologists will probably debate the significance of it (and the validity of IQ as a measurement) until the end of time, but it’s an interesting predictor all the same(2).

        Finally, hundreds of IQ studies worldwide have shown that there is a curious and persistent gap between some ethnic groups. Some groups perform at very high levels, others seem to perform at much lower levels on average. Again these results are debated, and since the potential social fallout is so great, these debates are not likely to be resolved anytime soon. But it is interesting data(3).

        So since the cities above are all dominated by a particular ethnic group, and that group on average tends to under-perform on IQ tests, SATs, and other standardized tests, and there seems to be a positive correlation between low IQs and violent criminal behavior, is it possible that some of the uglier stereotypes out there that these other guys have been relating have a grain of truth in them?

        No need to reply, I have zero interest in debating this issue or listening to long winded refutations of the validity of IQ as a measurement, race as an imaginary concept, or IQ as a predictor of crime. I was just tired of watching you swat half-wits around and wanted you to know that there are folks out there like myself who are intelligent, financially successful, and absolutely believe that it’s ridiculous and irresponsible to allow massive immigration from the third world into our American neighborhoods.

        Matthew

        (1) http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-violent-cities-in-the-world-2014-11?op=1
        (2) http://law.jrank.org/pages/1365/Intelligence-Crime-Explaining-IQ-crime-correlation.html
        (3) Race Differences in Intelligence, Lynn. Race Evolution and Behavior, Rushton. The Mismeasure of Man, Gould.

        • Jim Cook

          Thanks for writing. To that long comment, two short comments:
          1. Correlation does not equal causation. IQ is a measurement that is dependent on life experience.
          2. You’ve left economic stratification and its strong correlation to racial stratification out of the mix.

          None of this is germane to the finding that Lewiston’s crime rate has gone down since an influx of Somali immigrants.

          • Matthew

            Jim,

            Your beliefs are not supported by the data.

            1. Have you read any IQ studies conducted on identical twins separated at birth and raised separately? They have very similar IQs and even tend to do well or poorly in the same areas. So much for IQ being entirely dependent on life experience(1).
            2. IQ is a strong predictor of economic performance. Dumb people on average tend to be poor, and rich people on average tend to be smarter. This concept was explored at length by Harvard psychologist Richard Hernnstein in the Bell Curve. So if low IQ third world populations tend to under-perform economically, why would we want to invite them to our neighborhoods where they are more likely to commit crimes and require financial assistance?

            (1) http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304898704577478482432277706
            (2) Bell Curve, Herrnstein & Murray.

            • Jim Cook

              You supplied the “entirely,” Matthew, not me, so you’re beating against a straw man.

            • frank

              Useless to make sense of mr. Cook’s nonsense. There is are a reason why countries are third world ..but it doesn’t seem to be understood by people like Cook and many of our policy makers up in DC. They think is a good idea to throw unvetted and picked at random people that haven’t been able to build and sustain a civilized community in THEIR own countries into first world nations and that for some sort of miracle they will change overnight and transform in law abiding citizens, champions of human and civil rights!! This is insanity and will have disastrous consequences for the West. We, in the West, reached, after centuries of struggles, civil wars, revolutionary movements, two world wars, to this stage and what are we doing? People, especially populations that are still at the 2nd and 3rd world stage, need to be helped in their Nations. This feeling compassion..guilt..whatever the fuck it is that we feel..will destroy civilized Nations.

      • frank

        Lol. Facts…Lewiston is lucky to have a very small minority of third worlders. Why don’t you illuminate us on the successful integration of the 100k savages thrown into Minnesota. And a response to Manning: it’s no bigotry towards immigrants. You libs have your mouths full of these two words,”bigotry” and “racism”, and that is supposed to be a rational answer. It’s common sense: you don’t fill a nation with third world backward cultures and expect all to be fine. We are seeing the disastrous effects of this type of policies. We have now an internal problem with Islamic extremism that was unknown to our culture few decades ago! What is it good about taking refugees from Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or any other shit hole out there escapes my comprehension. And there you go..now we have it: “Americans” joiniing Isis, assaulting military inside and outside bases. And i am leaving alone the out of control numbers of illegals from Latin America enriching our Nation and driving wages down for everyone!! Cook and Manning ..you need to wake the fuck up.

  • IM

    I propose the issue w/ Somalis is cultural not race. I lean liberal and support immigration. My impression of Somalis is not good though – it’s based on living in Nairobi 1990-91 when Somalia fell and refugees flooded the country. Somalia is a warlord culture. Business cannot survive. The Kenyans and Ugandans don’t like Somalis as they’ve raided for years. The piracy we see has ancient roots. Clans in Somolia kill each other and were only kept apart by a brutal govt. This was explained to me by a Somalian who was proud of the fact. When U.S. soldiers were dragged through Mogadishu and folks suggested we invade – I stated that if you wanted to send the country to hell, simply withdraw. I feel terrible for the good Somalis trapped in stereotypes or simply being prayed upon by the warrior-types – there are undoubtedly many. But understand, Somali culture is unique among Africans and most cultures in the world.

    • frank

      I propose to stop an cancel the disgraceful refugee resettlement program. It’s not only about the Somali. The program poures millions of our tax dollars in “charitable organizations” that profit from the stupidity and ineptitude of the American govt, flooding American communities with unassimilable third worlders and cheap labor for big industries. What is more disgraful..is that the stupid and complicit American government and politicians take the orders from the UNCHR. Results are UNVETTED third worlders, mostly from Islamic nations, are sent to our cities and, surprise, get immediately on ALL federal and local welfare program. Homegrown terrorism? Guess who’s fault it is.

    • frank

      People, like the Cook type, are the disingenuous kind that will destroy our Western civilization.

  • Rich

    White leftists are hilarious in their lies. Yet it is tragic how many white geeks destroy the nation because of their insanity for diversity. Interesting ONLY white places are supposed to practice diversity but no others. Time for diversity in Africa? China? Islamic nations? Mr. Cook you are a liar if you actually think it will end up well. It will not and has not in other places. The white population in lewiston has already dropped radically in a decade. Within 10 years expect it to be about 60% and falling off a cliff. Of course individual Africans will be fine but as a group? Forget it. Nightmare.

    Tell me where is this great improvement in places like black Ferguson, Detroit, St. Louis, Camden, Philly, Baltimore, Compton, Gary, Indiana, Memphis. Wanna go on? Seems your white breaded world in Maine has brainwashed you to not accepting the reality that is slowly coming your way. Everything has a tipping point. You are slowly hitting it in Lewiston. The rest will just be lies and cover ups with statements like “Gee, it never used to be like this.” And “Hey, the kids need more programs to keep crime down.” Sound familiar as in nearly every city in America? It’s like you refuse to deal with the obvious. Even more hilarious is white liberals often live like the KKK would- totally segregated. They toss in a few nice black people to keep it feeling nice and PC but never a huge amount.. That is for sure. One thing for sure, Lewiston is finishing up and NOT going up. Oh and since left wing whites are stuck on racism, Lewiston crime rates would not go up if say, Chinese were coming in. But why do whites insist their areas turn in general? Very strange. But in the end, this diversity push is more about business wanting cheap labor and the democrat party wanting votes.. You think they give a damn about Maine or the country?

    • Jim Cook

      Rich,

      You have some bombastic language there, but let’s focus on your most specific claim: that I have lied. Would you point out the specific factual falsehood in this article, please, and document specifically that it is false? I expect you to throw up some more chaff, but I will return to this question: are you able to point out a specific factual falsehood in this article?

      There is no “slowly hitting” a tipping point in Lewiston. As I document in this article, since Somali immigrants came to Lewiston, crime rates are DOWN below where they were in the period before their arrival. And as I document in another article — http://irregulartimes.com/2015/01/30/after-arrival-of-somali-immigrants-was-lewiston-a-crime-outlier-for-maine/ — this is while other cities in Maine without significant Somali immigrant populations — such as Augusta, Sanford and Biddeford — experienced a crime increase.

      • Matthew

        Jim,

        Have you considered the possibility that your crime figures are skewed because of a cultural difference in the percentage of crimes that go unreported? I’ve read a few criminology papers over the years and all of them considered victim reporting rates. It seems fairly logical to me to assume that if a group of people comes from a region where there is no law and order but lots of crime that perhaps reporting crimes would not occur to them. It also seems fairly logical to me to assume that white victims in Lewiston may under-report crimes committed by Somalis because they don’t want to be labeled with the “racist” stigma.

        Matthew

        • Jim Cook

          That’s an absolutely fair question. It turns out, though, that:

          * On the racist stigma issue, fear of reprisal or getting offender in trouble is the least common reason for not reporting a crime; nearly three times more often, the crime is not reported because it was dealt with in another way. When the victim and perpetrator are strangers to one another, only 6% of non-reported crimes involved fear of reprisal or worry about getting the offender in trouble.

          * Age and education are more important than race in predicting who doesn’t report crimes; the young and uneducated are least likely to report crimes.

          * White respondents to the National Crime Victimization Survey are mildly more likely to not report crimes against them (54%) than black respondents (46%), but these rates are not wildly different and only 13% of White victims indicate they didn’t report crimes because of fear of reprisal or getting an offender in trouble. Fear of reprisal is actually higher among Black non-reporting victims.

          Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vnrp0610.pdf

          So I hear you, but I don’t think this mild difference (with no substantiation of reasons behind the difference having to do with ‘racist’ stigma) is enough to account for the fact that comparing the period before Somali immigration to Lewiston started in 2001 to the period after 2001, there is such a marked drop in the crime rate reported by police.

          • Matthew

            Well if the crime figures are accurate then it’s an interesting and surprising phenomenon for sure. Only time will tell I guess. Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire have been consistently in the top 5 safest states for many years now, and they are simultaneously the whitest states in the union. If crime shifts for the worse as we become more diverse then that’s probably a sign that this social experiment was wrong-headed from the start. Of course by then it will be too late to stop the demographic shift.

            Let’s hope the liberal social engineers are right, because if they’re wrong then several beautiful and safe states could potentially degenerate into third world hell holes in the next 50 years.

            • Jim Cook

              We’ll watch and see. If the conservative social engineers are wrong, on the other hand, then we’ve engaged in unjust exclusion and drawn out one of history’s largest mistakes.

              • frank

                well so far the Conservative social engineers have been right on Detroit, Baltimore, New Orleans, Los Angeles…..and plenty of other Liberals shit holes, engineered and managed by Liberals.

  • frank

    Lewiston and Maine are drawing in more and more refugees because of the generous welfare system. Give it time Mr. Cook….soon we’ll have another shit hole on the map. Bet you whatever you want.

  • Rich

    Play your games Mr. Cook. Everything I said is 100% TRUE. Crime is UP in Portland and it WILL come your way in Lewiston as well( Yes, I seriously question the stats). If you don’t think there is a tipping point in terms of areas changing and going into the dustbin you are nuts. I noticed you could not remotely answer all the areas that went black in America and are now bombed out hell holes. Are you going to actually sit there with a straight face and pretend Lewiston, at say, 15-20%( when it happens), Somalian and black, will be a great place to live?? People who live in Lewiston complain all the time what they see regarding the changes. It will get much worse just as Minneapolis has. Once a very nice city but as usual, tipping point happened. The cultural changes are happening in Lewiston. So, are you planning on buying or renting a home in the Somalian section of anywhere in Lewiston? Or will you like so many liberal whites who play the game somehow avoid living there? Your tipping point is coming. Count on it like the sun coming up. People said similar against it in dumps like Detroit, Flint, Philly, Camden, Newark, parts of Boston, Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Memphis, Birmingham and and and on.. You think you get to avoid it while the whole country has not? Maine has about the same amount of murders as East St. Louis which is staggering considering East St. Louis is tiny and Maine has far more people. The difference? Maine is overwhelmingly WHITE. But if people like you get your way, you will happily turn Maine into a third world dump. I wish what I said is not true but ohhh, experience over and over again tells a very different story. Ps. Not saying whites do not commit crime. They do. But at radically LESS rates than blacks and browns. The same can be said for Asians. They commit radically less violent crime as well than blacks and browns.

    So you want to pretend Lewiston is peachy keen and fine and hold on to the police stats. Fine. But the white population WILL fall off a cliff as more time goes on. And then Lewiston will be another fine third world dump. Suddenly police will become the problem and more “money” will be needed to care for the area. It’s the same old song. In fact the record is sold old they need to shake the dust off it. So you are saying black somalian populations are better to live with than whites? LMAO.. WOW.. I KNOW you don’t truly believe that. But oh well, Pay the piper. And the piper will be paid. Certainly wish it were not so but doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of??

    • Jim Cook

      I asked you to substantiate your claim that I have lied. You haven’t. Your cherry-picking rant doesn’t distract from that.

      • frank

        …just sit and wait mr Cook. Wait until more waves of third worlders cone there, attracted by a generous welfate system It will turn just like every other shit hole run by minority-majority. Those were unfounded fears years ago for a lot of cities as well..to begin with Detroit snd ending up with Baltimore. Do you want to blame that on racism as well? Racism..that’s what liberals call ..facts.

        • Jim Cook

          Love it: if the present doesn’t match your prejudices, depend on the future.

          • frank

            The present is: welfare. The future is…Minnesota style, Isis…mr Cook. You know when you liberals will wake up? When tragedies like the Kate Steinle episodes strikes obe of your own. Senseless immigration policies gave us 9/11 mr Cook. Apparently you forgot..and that’s the tragedy.

  • Charles Manning

    Jim Cook, I’ve enjoyed your comments about Somalis (or Somalians). Your comments, and news articles I’ve read about Somalis in other cities, have convinced me that we owe a great deal of respect and admiration for Somalis who’ve come to this country. Your critics haven’t convinced me that we have reason to expect people coming here from Somalia, and their descendants born here, haven’t/won’t become valued citizens to the same extent as other immigrant groups who came here voluntarily. (Note: the majority of other people from Africa came as slaves, and they and their descendants remained slaves for decades after arrival, were treated harshly in the American south under Jim Crow, and still face racial discrimination.) But I’ve been wondering — the rants of Frank, Rich, and others imply that there’s an open door for any people from Somalia who want to immigrate to the U.S.; reminds me of what Trump said about Mexicans. I’m sure there’s no open door, and illegal border crossings would seem to be rare because Somalia isn’t contiguous to the U.S. But I don’t know what tests Somalis have to pass to gain admission to the U.S. Can you enlighten your readers on that? And if Somalis commit crimes on U.S. soil, under what circumstances could they be deported? And has anyone compiled statistics on the numbers or percentages of deported persons, prison inmates, or persons with other involvement in the criminal justice system, who are from Somalia? If these folks are so inclined to criminality, I think by now we would have that information.

    • frank

      ..sure..they’re excellent welfare recipients and Isis fighters!! Sure NOTHING will convince you! Not even the failures of our refugee program, which are evident mostly on the vetting part which is non existent! Not even ten 9/11s wil convince you liberals until YOU or one of YOUR family members is caught in something similar.

  • gny

    Thank you for the information. My in-laws were born and still live in downtown Lewiston, Maine. They and my husband lived through the high crimes of the 1980s and 90s, when theft, vandalism, and drugs ran galore.

    Though I visit only a few times a year, I’ve seen the influx of Somali immigrants. I’m fortunate to have in-laws who are open to fairness and justice, and *try* to not judge others based on the color of their skin. Their neighbors are Somalis, and my mother-in-law tells me stories of her Somali neighbors. Some are positive, like how the elderlies keep a close eye on the children, how they keep to themselves and most are respectful. Some are negative stories, like many of them are on welfare, women keep having babies, and men don’t seem to be around.

    Those who posted racist comments about the Somali immigrants… I wonder if you think of them as humans. These are mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters, who barely escaped the violence and poverty in their homeland, where day-to-day existence was in jeopardy, where even listening to western music was a crime. They are looking to escape violence, not perpetrate it. Of course, many of them could have problems. If you constantly lived in fear of your boy being taken away by a militia group, your daughter raped on the street, not knowing if it’s safe to go outside to get food… Years of such life would take a heavy toll on anyone’s psyche. I am sure they are not proud to be on welfare, but they don’t speak English, live in a freezing, run-down city with few jobs, where everything except their own countrymen are foreign. How do you expect these people to survive without assistance and without a problematic phase in their lives? Look at our combat troops coming back from the Middle East, having to dealing with PTSD. I imagine many Somalis have gone through similar traumatic experiences, where they witnessed horrible violence, stuff that many Americans would avoid even reading about.

    Many of these families are occupying apartments that were already empty, restoring life to a block that without them would have continued to sit abandoned. They are not perfect people, they bring with them their own culture and language that are foreign to the earlier settlers. But the fact that they need help and are getting it to live a better life does not mean that they are trampling on the people already here who are struggling.

    If you are a white American and have many anxious nights about how you will pay your next month’s rent, or because you can’t afford to get your son a new pair of shoes for the new school year, despite working two jobs… it’s a terrible situation you’re in. It’s a terrible situation for everyone regardless of one’s color. But your grand parents, great grandparents, or great-great grandparents were at some point just like these Somali immigrants, escaping their meagerly, uncertain existence in Europe, fleeing persecution, or just trying to avoid the next round of famines and misery. Please think of the commonality of human race, that we all have times when we must pray for our safety, instead of fighting about which way our butt points when we pray.

    • Matthew

      All human lives are important, and everyone deserves to be treated with dignity or respect. However, that doesn’t change the fact that we are all products of the culture we are reared in, and that some of these third world immigrants have a hard time integrating with Western culture. That can lead to violence, abuse of women or children, crime, poverty, etc.

      I acknowledge and appreciate that these Somali’s probably had very difficult lives back in their homeland. But as a citizen of the United States and a resident of Maine, I find myself asking what benefit are we getting from allowing these folks immigrate here? How are they making our country and state a better place? I’m all for immigration, and bringing the best and brightest minds to the US so our nation can prosper. But these people aren’t the best and the brightest, they aren’t the next Steve Jobs, they are destitute folks who come here and immediately get caught in a cycle of generational Welfare. They criticize our cultural values, they accuse the majority population of racism, and they preach a religion that in certain respects is brutal and medieval. They bring down the average IQ of our population (not a pretty fact, but true), and they burden our schools and business with increased language requirements and cultural sensitivity training.

      Let’s look at the bottom line here for a moment and pretend we’re running a business instead of a charity. Why should we hire these people instead of doctors from India, engineers from China, PhDs from Europe, etc? When someone can provide me with a coherent argument as to what tangible benefit our country gets from bringing in poor third world immigrants instead of educated folks from the first world, then I’ll flip my party affiliation back from Republican to my old Democratic roots. Until then, I’ll continue to vote against these reckless immigration policies that I believe could one day permanently cripple the success of our nation.

      Matthew

      • Jim Cook

        Matthew,

        Do you have documentation that Somali immigrants in Lewiston:

        * are not the best?
        * are not the brightest?
        * do not have among them the next Steve Jobs?
        * are, having come to Lewiston beginning in 2000, caught in a cycle of intergenerational welfare?
        * criticize American values?
        * accuse the majority of racism?
        * have a lower than average IQ than others?

        I agree with you when you say “let’s look at the bottom line.” The bottom line is that you’ve made these specific claims about Somali immigrants to Lewiston. Do you have specific documentation to support these specific claims? If not, please retract them.

        • Matthew

          Jim,

          Thank you for your thoughtful questions, clearly you are an erudite man. Here are my thoughts.

          1. Thousands of IQ studies have been conducted worldwide, and as anyone who follows the psychometric literature knows, Africa and many other third world regions score very poorly. Somalia’s average scores are in the 59-71 range, which means that the average individual from that nation is in the mildly retarded classification. (1)
          2. Somali deployed it’s first national written language in 1972 and has not made any significant contributions to the global development of technology or architecture. As discussed, this may be a function of the low average IQs in the mildly retarded range.
          3. In a high technology world, individuals with higher IQs are at a competitive advantage because of their increased capacity for creative thinking and problem solving. There is also a substantial body of evidence to support the theory that high IQ and high educational performance lead to greater economic success, just as low IQs tend to lead to crime and poverty. This has been explored at length by Harvard psychologist Richard Hernnstein and others. (2,3,4)
          4. In 2002 the mayor of Lewiston wrote an open letter to the Somali immigrants informing them that their mass migration had overwhelmed the city’s social services system (5). There have been numerous articles in the Bangor Daily News (6) and Lewiston Sun Journal (7) reporting on cases of Somali Welfare fraud in Lewiston.
          5. I have gotten to know five Somali’s on a personal basis. All five of them were highly critical of US cultural values and social mores. 5 is certainly not a large sample size, but given the totality of other evidence such as immigrant Muslims in France and England undermining the values of those countries, I think there is a reasonably good case to be made.
          6. Is this a serious question? If so, please seek professional help.
          7. As discussed in 1, 2, and 3 above, the average Somali IQ is in the mildly retarded range. We can certainly debate the causes of these low scores (nutrition, education, cultural bias, et al) but those issues aside, the numbers are what they are.

          NOTES:
          (1) http://memolition.com/2014/02/27/who-are-the-smartest-people-on-earth-world-map-of-average-iq-scores/
          (2) Herrnstein & Murray, Bell Curve.
          (3) Richard Lynn, Race Differences in Intelligence.
          (4) Philippe Rushton, Race, Evolution and Behavior.
          (5) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Letter:_An_American_Town_and_the_%27Somali_Invasion%27
          (6) http://bangordailynews.com/2012/07/20/news/lewiston-auburn/lewiston-couple-accused-of-welfare-fraud/
          (7) http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2015/03/10/high-court-upholds-convictions-lewiston-halal-market-owners/1666917&CSProduct=sunjournal-sub

          • frank

            Jim, do you have the evidence that the Somali we have “imported” are first world citizens? Are doctors, college professors, biochemists, engineers? What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have an idea where they lived? I don’t recall them being extracted for the Somalian Silicon Valley and dumped in the US!! They came from a backward culture based on Islamic medieval laws!! Piracy, female circumcision, honor killings, slavery, women treated like slaves..are you fucking kidding me? Since from when America has the obligation to take in the backward savages of the world? Can we go back t common sense and try to help people in their damn places? We DO NOT have room for everyone!! And the ones that come here MUST be completely vetted, have education, LEARN English and ACCEPT civil contract and practices that have been established for centuries in the Western Nations!!!

            • Matthew

              The saddest part is that Republicans and Democrats are so far apart ideologically on this issue that we can’t even see each other’s perspective as being rational. One side thinks the other is racist, and the other side thinks they are shuttling in third world chattel as a guaranteed voting block.

              If a reasonable common ground is not reached at some point in the coming years, then the US is going to have to tough challenges to overcome.

              Matthew

            • Jim Cook

              I don’t have to have that evidence, because I don’t have to show that Somali immigrants to Lewiston are good people, in the absence of any evidence that they are bad people, in order for us to consider Somali immigrants to Lewiston to be individual people worthy of respect.

              For YOU to dump on Somali immigrants in Lewiston, given that the crime rate has gone DOWN since they moved there while it’s gone UP in other places in Maine during the same time, requires YOU to provide systematic concrete evidence regarding Somali immigrants in Lewiston.

              You continue to fail to do that.

          • Jim Cook

            Thanks for writing back, but as you know, none of that affirms what you claim about the people of Lewiston who are immigrants from Somalia. The best you have is an anecdote regarding small and biased samples of the Lewiston community. Many of your sources have nothing to do with Lewiston at all.

            The IQ study you link to has been criticized — see http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n4/full/6800418a.html and http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&uid=2004-17780-001 and http://hsmt.history.ox.ac.uk//courses_reading/undergraduate/authority_of_nature/week_8/volken.pdf . Volken sums it up well: “the models presented by Lynn and Vanhanen are under-complex and inadequately specified. More precisely the authors confuse IQ with human capital. The paper concludes that once control variables are introduced and the models are adequately specified, neither an impact of IQ on income nor on growth can be substantiated.” Richardson: “national wealth reflects industrial development, which requires an ever-expanding middle class, and IQ scores simply reflect middle class membership. It is a widespread error to treat IQs as values on a simple biometric trait, as these authors do. There is no scientific basis for it.” Palairet’s point is specifically damning: “Many of the IQ statistics on which they draw must inevitably be subject to significant errors, especially as data were available only for 81 out of the 185 countries analysed, with the rest assigned IQs equal to, or averaging those of adjacent countries. One might have reservations for example about using a small sample test for Croatia in 1952 to allocate Croatia an IQ of 90, extraordinarily low for a central European country, and then to apply the average of this and a figure of 95 for Slovenia as their data point for ‘Yugoslavia’ – that is, Serbia – which is not a neighbour of Slovenia, and it is not hard to find other anomalies and assumptions verging on the heroic.”

            On the basis of your poor evidence, I suggest you retract your claims.

            If you won’t retract your claim, will you agree with me that White people are welfare frauds and have low IQs if I can find some anecdotes regarding White people who are welfare frauds and have low IQs?

            • Matthew

              Jim,

              You are confusing anecdotes with mathematical means and statistical trends.

              Are you disputing thousands of IQ studies that show mean IQs in third world regions like Africa are one or more standard deviations below the average of 100? If so, then you are in an academic minority position that is so small it could be classified as extreme. So again I’ll ask, what benefit does our country get from importing folks from low IQ regions when we could be recruiting and importing the very best and brightest the world has to offer?

              If you ran a company, and hired only the worst candidates that you interviewed, wouldn’t that put your company at a disadvantage against it’s competitors? Again, this is common sense stuff and not very tricky to wrap your head around.

              Matthew

              • Jim Cook

                I am disputing the conflation of correlation with causation, I dispute that regions have IQs, and I am disputing your notion that you haven’t been trafficking in anecdotes.

            • frank

              If the IQ studies were not real then explain why Africa and many other Countries in the 3rd world are STILL in a pitiful condition NOTWITHSTANDING billions of dollars in aid from the west for the past 6-7 decades. They are still..emerging!! The Bell curve is a remarkable study and is proven with facts..on the ground. The one that has anecdotes..is you Mr Cook.

            • Jim Cook

              … So you won’t agree with me that White people are welfare frauds and have low IQs if I can find some anecdotes regarding White people. That’s interesting, considering it’s what you’ve done regarding black people. That’s what we call a bias.

              • frank

                You keep talking about “anecdotes” and frankly, you don’t know what you are talking about. The IQ researches are extremely detailed and it is obvious that withing a group there are deviations, But, you cannot deny that the results are quite constant among the ethnic groups. Facts speaks by themselves. Africa? still a shit hole. Explain why..please, and spare me the colonialism bs. We are decades and billions of dollars over that.
                In the US,,, i’ll give you the perfect example of the IQ research: Detroit. Taken over and run by blacks..turned into a shit hole in few years. That’s a fact..has nothing to do with racism but empirical evidence. And I can name few others, same pattern. Explain that one too. White supremacy? LOL..yeah..the typical response of the ones that have no response: racism and White supremacy (in 80-99% black cities?). One another example: South Africa. Thriving Nation under the Boer rule ..turned into a shit hole when the locals took over. Please keep the “morals” out of the picture and talk about FACTS!
                Welfare..OBVIOUS that whites get welfare too!! But what is your point then? If you want to dismiss the IQ research you need to give me practical examples where the IQ theory fails. And you have failed and will fail to do so…

              • Jim Cook

                Bullshit.

                I call absolute bullshit.

                Here is a link to a pdf file copy of the book to which Matthew refers: http://www.rlynn.co.uk/uploads/pdfs/Intelligence%20and%20the%20Wealth%20and%20Poverty%20of%20Nations.pdf

                You go read that book carefully and tell me something specifically:

                EXACTLY HOW MANY ACTUAL IQ TESTS OF ACTUAL PEOPLE LIVING IN SOMALIA WERE DELIVERED TO PRODUCE THE ESTIMATE IN THAT BOOK?

                Give me the actual number. It’s a really good number.

              • frank

                LOL..i can read all the studies you want…you still haven’t explained my points. IQ science bogus? Ok..let’ assume there’s no correlation…then EXPLAIN my points.

              • frank

                ..and why are you so fixated about Somali? Their IQ is within the failed IQ range of Africa that explain why Somalia is a shit hole in the first place!!

              • Jim Cook

                Read. the. Study. Then. Tell. Me. This:

                EXACTLY HOW MANY ACTUAL IQ TESTS OF ACTUAL PEOPLE LIVING IN SOMALIA WERE DELIVERED TO PRODUCE THE ESTIMATE IN THAT BOOK?

              • frank

                Reading and so dar..is confirming the Bell Curve. Why you keep denying the evidence mr. Cook?

      • gny

        Matthew,

        The U.S.A. has no problem letting in doctors, PhDs, and millionaires immigrate to this country. Their privileged immigration process has nothing to do with having Somali REFUGEES, the survivors who are willing to put down new roots in a part of the country that Americans of Franco-Canadian heritage have long decided to abandon.

        If you don’t see the benefit of families restoring life back to abandoned houses, an aspiring businessman open shop in a vacant store, and children play again on formerly empty streets…

        You have already convinced yourself so thoroughly on the inferiority of Somalis (and Africans in general) that there cannot be a reasonable debate between you and non-racists. Citing IQ test results doesn’t make your claim any valid, no matter how many standard deviations away the results are from the world average. What does it mean to even give an IQ test to a population which is vastly illerate, malnourished, and struggling to even have clean water? Any statistician knows that the CONTEXT from which statistics is derived matters just as much as the statistics itself.

        You wrote that “One side thinks the other is racist, and the other side thinks they are shuttling in third world chattel as a guaranteed voting block.”

        This is not a Democrat v Republican thing. Please google the word “racist”. Then please reflect on why people, of any party affiliation, think you are a racist.

        • frank

          Here is another one!! What is it wrong with you liberals and your quest for self destruction? Benefits? taking 3rd worlders backward cultures into the West is a benefit? And what benefit do you see in mass of refugees going straight on welfare and public assistance? What kind of benefits do you see in importing ISIS friendly hordes? May be you should look back at Europe and the disaster that uncontrolled mass immigration from the 3rd world has caused there. May be you are not aware of the fact we are now growing our own Islamic terrorists…. inside the US!! Never had that before!! That was a wonderful gift!!!Thank you Liberals!!!! Inferiority? Hell yeah their cultures are INFERIOR and NOT compatible with the West.. they are 3-400 years behind!!! If it wasn’t true then they would have created organized and functioning societies in their own places!! What makes you think that they will become outstanding. modern, freedom lovers, civil rights advocating citizens when you just change their place?? Is there an invisible magic powder in the air in Western Countries that changes people’s behavior? Are you and Jim Cook for real?? Do me a favor, just leave your nice neighborhood and go and live among them..see how much you like it!! You and people like you are all talk and no action. Place you ass where your mouth is.

          • Jim Cook

            No. No “here is another one.” No vaguely changing the subject. No.

            Stick with this subject, which is that while you wave your hands vaguely, in the particular community of Lewiston, the arrival of Somali immigrants has NOT led to an increase in crime rates compared to the period before their arrival. It is LOWER, during a period in which other Maine communities that do not have a community of Somali immigrants saw their crime rates increase.

            Not that it affects the veracity of the crime statistics of Lewiston, but what makes you think I have not lived in a neighborhood with Somali immigrants to the United States, Frank?

            • frank

              I already discusses your stats..and told you that the curve has gone a up a bit. Sticking to the Lewiston case when we have an example, in lager scale. of what massive 3rd world immigration does is reductive. Just sit an wait mr. Cook. Once more and more will flood Lewiston you will see the change becoming MORE evident. They, progressive delusional people like you, said the same about Detroit..New Orleans..Baltimore…and on ..and on..

              • J Clifford

                Hey, I know a game! I’ll repeat my bigoted beliefs over and over again, and see if they become true. Do you know that game, Frank? Play often?

              • frank

                I know a game also: you repeat a lie over and over again. Eventually becomes true!!!

        • Jim Cook

          Well said, gny.

          Even the very flawed book to which Matthew refers notes that the simple bivariate correlation between the construct “IQ” and real GDP per capita is a very strong +.757 . See http://www.rlynn.co.uk/uploads/pdfs/Intelligence%20and%20the%20Wealth%20and%20Poverty%20of%20Nations.pdf

        • Matthew

          Thanks for your responses all.

          GNY – I certainly don’t consider myself a racist, but if you or others do then I’m perfectly comfortable with that. The “racist” term has been so over-used in our society that it has lost all meaning. I vividly recall an experience in high school when I was having lunch with a great friend who happened to be African American. A hillbilly jerk dropped the n-word at my friend and both of us stood up at the same time, furious, and told the guy what an ignorant jerk he was. My reaction was instant and genuine, and I’m proud that I stood up for my friend no matter what his skin color was. Referencing the findings of academic IQ studies does not make someone a racist, it makes them informed. Learn the difference and you will be better for it.

          Jim – If your belief that IQ studies in Africa do not show that the native populations are generally 30+ points below average then why are there hundreds, literally hundreds of articles written by psychologists debating what the cause of the IQ gap is? The professionals in psychometric aren’t debating whether or not there is a gap, they are debating what the cause of the gap is. Some say it’s nutrition, others say it’s cultural, some believe it’s 100% nurture, others believe it may be as high as 50% genetic, etc. This is an issue I’ve been following and reading about for 15 years, so I suggest you dig in and do some reading so you can get up-to-speed.

          Matthew

          • frank

            Try to reason with left wing zealots! The facts don’t matter to the Cooks of the world…

          • J Clifford

            Hey, Bell Curve fans: Are you aware that the genetic diversity within human populations in Africa is greater than the genetic difference between Africans and non-Africans?

            Think through the implications now… slowly… don’t strain your brains.

            • Matthew

              J Clifford,

              Thanks for your response. The chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical, and yet I think we can all agree there are a few important differences between us. I’m not one to argue that IQ is 100% genetic, that would be an absurd position as nurture clearly plays a massive role. But I think it’s pretty extreme and irresponsible to believe that genes play absolutely no role at all in someone’s intellectual capabilities. I’ve been a weight-lifter for 20 years, and I learned very early on from experience that genes play a major role in muscular development, far more than nutrition, technique, etc.

              If genes play such a major role our physiology and determine things like skin tone, hair/eye color, musculature, and disease rates, then why is it so hard for you to believe that the capabilities of the brain could also be affected?

              Matthew

              • J Clifford

                Matthew, the genetics shared by humans and chimpanzees represent a totally different type of statistical relationship.

                It would be absolutely WRONG to say that there is more genetic diversity within chimpanzees than there is genetic difference between chimpanzees and human beings. It would be correct, on the other hand, to say that chimpanzees have much more genetic diversity than human beings.

                Do you understand the distinction, here?

              • Matthew

                Clifford,

                I do understand the distinction and you’re right, that was not a good analogy on my part.

                Matthew

            • frank

              Hey Clif..are you aware that the average
              In Africa is in the 80? I don’t know what kind of point are you trying to make with your stupid comment….but the results of that average IQ are kind of very visible..aren’t they? Why you keep denying empirical evidence escapes me.

              • J Clifford

                Frank, your inability to understand the relevance of this statistical pattern in genetics is connected to the root of your bigoted attitudes.

                Let me spell it out for you: The genetic difference between Africans and everybody else in the world is not as great as the genetic difference between different African groups.

                From The Economist: “It is remarkable how homogenous humanity is. Around 85% of the genetic variability measured by Dr Cavalli-Sforza is variation between individuals within a given group. Another 6% is variation between groups within a single continent, and 9% is variation between continents.”

                Think about how this impacts your arguments about Africans, genetics, and intelligence. Think about how this impacts the claims made about African-Americans in The Bell Curve.

                Think.

              • frank

                Cliff..you just don’t get it, don’t you? You and Cook?Bigoted attitude my ass!! Empirical evidence is there in front of YOUR EYES folks. Africa has been, it is and will be a shit hole!! The IQ IS indicative of sustainability of civilization, and examples/facts ABOUND around the world!! You can write as much as you want about it, excuses, sophistic reasoning behind it..FACTS are what matter!! AND you cannot explain facts with accusation of “bigotry”..”racism”. THAT is not an explanation. Instead of throwing insults ..you and Cook SHOULD explain why the low IQ is consistent with backward cultures and low level of civilization. Until you can explain it…you two are full of doodoo!!

              • J Clifford

                Frank, your reaction to information that doesn’t fit your pre-existing schema seems to be to put words in all caps and use exclamation points.

                Your assertion that African DNA is associated with “low level of civilization” simply isn’t supported by the facts. I suggest you acquaint yourself with African history and human genetics.

                You can write “facts” in all caps, Frank, but you’re willfully ignoring the facts that Jim and I have presented to you, and dismissed logical arguments as “sophistic reasoning” simply because you are either incapable or unwilling to understand them.

              • Matthew

                Clifford,

                Sub-Saharan Africa does did not perform nearly as well as Europe and Asia in terms of developing written languages, number systems, architecture, advanced tools and technology, and highly complex civilizations. Even extremely liberal anthropologists like Jared Diamond know this, which is why they write books like “Guns, Germs, and Steel” to explain the disparity in achievement through environmental factors rather than genetic ones.

                Whether or not DNA is a factor in this lack of achievement is debatable, but the fact that there was and is a lack of achievement really isn’t.

                Let’s conduct an imaginary social experiment. What if we took 100 individuals with IQ scores of 70 and put them on an abandoned island, and then took 100 individuals with IQ scores of 130 and put them on another island. If these groups were left on their own for fifty years, which is the the more likely to adapt and survive? Which is the more likely to create tools, architecture, art, and an advanced civilization? The answer is obvious. And so is the relevance of the metaphor.

                Matthew

              • Jim Cook

                “Whether or not DNA is a factor in his lack of achievement is debatable…”

                Stop right there. That’s the point.

                Have you looked up the actual number of Somalis given actual IQ tests in the book you cited to me as proof that Lewiston’s Somali immigrant community was deficient?

              • Matthew

                Jim,

                Thanks for your response. I gave you three books, not one, and based on your comments I’m thinking you probably haven’t read any of them cover to cover. One of the books focuses on how IQ impacts likely socio-economic outcomes. High IQs tend to result in high economic performance and low IQs tend to result in poverty, Welfare, violence, and crime. One of the other books puts forward an argument that intelligence is approximately 50% genetic and 50% environmental. DNA analysis is only part of the picture, it also uses evidence like cranial vault size, cortical neuron counts, memory tests, intellectual reaction time computer tests, etc. IQ tests have been conducted many times throughout Africa, although I have read some criticisms over the years that in a handful of cases national IQ scores have been arbitrarily assigned to un-tested countries through the assumption that they would match neighboring countries that were tested. That being said, there is very, very strong evidence that the average sub-Saharan IQ is in the 70’s and sometimes lower. To suggest otherwise means that you’re either very mis-informed or very disingenuous on this particular topic.

                Also I think it’s very important for us all to acknowledge that these IQ tests are averages, which means it would be wrong for us to judge an individual’s intellectual capabilities by their ethnicity. There are many brilliant Somalis, just as there are many mentally challenged Caucasians. The entire thrust of my bringing IQ into the immigration debate was to raise my concerns about mass immigration from poor, violent, low IQ regions because our country hasn’t shown a sustained ability to care for our own poor, deranged, and infirm, so bringing in millions more makes very little sense.

                If America focuses on bringing in the best and brightest (of any ethnicity) then I believe our economy, nation and people will be the better for it.

                Matthew

              • Jim Cook

                The Bell Curve is not a serious book. You haven’t responded regarding the number of actual IQ tests of actual Somalis, and I notice that as I press you on this point — which is central to your contention regarding Lewiston’s Somali immigrants — you are now indicating you shall go away. Interesting. I’ll have to share the answer with everyone, since you seem anxious not to.

              • frank

                I don’t know if you are dumb by nature or you just pretend to be. Lynn studies didn’t study the whole population of Africa or any other continent but samples, with constant results. The Somalian presence is irrelevant, even though i am sure that tests were conducted, you will have to refer on how and where test were conducted. We know that tests were conducted on about 800000 individual around the globe in nine global regions of the world (Lynn, Race differences in intelligence). Your argument is focused on Somalians, is wrong. Apparently you think that Somalians are the Geniuses in Africa…otherwise your fixation cannot be explained. Somalians fall under the average IQ or Sub-Saharan Africa. You keep throwing out there progressive bs that doesn’t take in account all the questions i have posed to you and Clifford and left unanswered. I don’t need to find a study specifically on Somalians in Lewiston to know what the impact on local society will be when MORE Somalians will be going to Lewiston. We have seen the pattern with the larger group in Minnesota.And the same can be said of Iraqis, Afghanis and the thousands of Syrians we are about to take in!!I asked you and Clifford to answer my question about the Bell Curve and why facts are consistent with the low IQ allocated around the world by Lynn and other authors. So far..i haven’t been answered and it is both of you that have failed. Expand your view a little beyond the Lewiston matter. It is a problem: 3rd world uneducated, backward cultures are destined to fail and not to assimilate in our Western Nations. Europe is beginning to see the effects of this disastrous way to handle immigration. Please..allow yourself to be less obtuse and understand the concept i am trying to convey here. I guess you and Cliff fall into the lower IQ category of your respective ethnic groups…

              • frank

                …No Somalis in the study. That proves that they are geniuses and that’s why they don’t have a Nation and whatever is left of that Nation is a gargantuan shit hole. In fact we take “refugees” from populations that have plenty of engineers, doctors and college professors right. I guess we call them refugees for fun..because everything works in the Nation of origin!!! LMAO.

              • Jim Cook

                That’s right, Frank. ZERO observations of actual Somalis in the book you and Matthew are leaning on to justify your claim that Somalis have low IQ. Zero! And now you’re following up with the “they’re all alike” line. Classic.

              • frank

                Cliff,
                if is not supported by facts..then what is it? Awaiting for your response Genius. You and Jim have proved nothing. The facts can be caps ..because they are FACTS. The IQ perfectly predicts the socioeconomics factors of Nations or Continents. I asked you and the Cook for “explanation” of the extremely poor conditions of EVERY single Nation were blacks are the dominant group. You can come up with one. The same can be predicted for every group, White,purple or pink. Look at Latin America. Where population are more homogeneous the place does generally better, but as a whole LA is in a 2nd world status! In the US, look, for example, at the gaps between whites and blacks in terms of STA scores: zero changes since the book was first written!! The environmental explanation doesn’t do it anymore folks. It is DNA.
                If you have a better explanation, please provide it, this is the 3rd time i ask.

  • J Clifford

    Matthew, the relevance of the metaphor you give is extremely low, because you’re supposing that there’s a homogenous population in terms of IQ on each island. In fact, genetic variety within any human group is higher than it is between human groups. Populations also aren’t at all homogenous in terms of IQ. So, if you took 100 people from two actual populations, these supposed differences would come out in the wash. So, in order to set up your metaphor, you’d have to screen out people in order to create stark distinctions that don’t match what’s going on in reality.

    What you set up isn’t so much a relevant metaphor as an extremely skewed, desperate attempt to create a picture of reality that matches what you wish were true.

    Besides the detail that the facts you refer to, or “FACTS” as Frank would call them, are based on a statistically laughable sample size of ____, we have the additional detail that the measurement we’re talking about here is IQ, which is not a biological constant throughout a person’s life, but changes even throughout the course of a single day.

    That you and Frank are scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with these justifications for beliefs about the inherent lack of worth of other human beings, in the context of claims of crime waves in Lewiston, Maine that are absolutely not supported by the facts of reality, only shows how far people will go to preserve their biases in defiance of contrary evidence.

    Thank you for this demonstration of some very interesting psychological phenomena.

    • frank

      May be Clifford needs me to write in a different language. MY facts based on a statistically laughable size? You mean the WHOLE Africa, what is it about 2 billion people? LOL
      Denying the evidence is laughable. The Bell curve in a wonderful piece of work and the studies conducted perfectly explains the socioeconomics of different areas of the world. If tat is a “laughable size”..ohh i get it!! they should have conducted the same tests in the whole Universe…Martians, Venusians…Et’s. Got it!! My reality is not a “wish was true”, yours is. What is not true about Africa being a gigantic shit hole? It is obvious that IQ is not a constant throughout somebody’s life but it is also true that IQ is a constant a value among different races. NOT everyone has the same IQ and exceptions are obvious!! BUT the average is what reflects in different outcomes in terms of development of a society. It’s so evident that your denial is the LAUGHABLE matter here. Bottom of the barrel? There is no much to scrape. Just pick any Nation where Africans or Latinos or Asians or Whites are the dominant group! You can be accurate to predict what a neighborhood will become if one of these groups is dominant in the area!! Clifford..what are you smoking?

      • J Clifford

        Frank, if you can show me a statistical study of intelligence in Africa that includes measurements of two billion people, then I will be impressed.

        That is not what The Bell Curve is. The Bell Curve is a sloppy piece of pulp, based upon thoroughly flawed research, written with a political agenda. (See the February 1995 issue of Scientific American: http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/sciam1.htm)

        • frank

          Cliff are you dumb or what> There is no study such that. LOL. The Bell Curve is an excellent piece of work and is corroborated by facts. DISPROVE IT. Scientific American has not disproven it but just bashing it, while providing no explanation on why IQ and socioeconomics correspond: low IQ means low level of civilization. Self evident. You keep proving no explanation and since 1993 the situation for much of the world has NOT changed.

    • Matthew

      Clifford,

      Thanks for your response. I believe my metaphor was highly relevant, but let’s say you’re right and change the imaginary experiment then. Take 100 randomly selected natives from a low IQ region like sub-Saharan Africa and take 100 randomly selected natives from a much higher IQ region like East Asia and put them on isolated islands. Which is more likely to adapt, overcome and survive? Which is more likely to invent technological wonders like water clocks, fireworks, and rockets? Which is more likely to invent written language and a complex number system? Doesn’t it just make common sense that groups who have a much higher density of smart people and a much lower density of mentally challenged people is more likely to succeed?

      Compare the histories and archaeological records of China and sub-Saharan Africa. Doesn’t that data already show us the likely outcome of my imaginary experiment? I believe it does.

      Matthew

      • J Clifford

        Matthew, the fact that you’re continuing with your flawed metaphor demonstrates that you don’t understand my point. Besides, if you take 100 randomly selected “natives” from 2 different regions, and place them on isolated islands, the truth is you have no idea what’s going to happen. Your thought experiment also requires that we somehow deprive these “natives” of basic cultural knowledge of things like written language, making it a bizarre distortion of social reality, not a useful analogue for how things actually work in our world. Besides, it took our ancestors something like 200,000 years, not living on isolated islands but trading with each other, to invent written language. In what world are we going to run an experiment of isolating human beings and their descendants for 200,000 years, to see which group learns to write first?

        This is just crazy, Matthew. Not highly relevant.

        • frank

          LOL. Have you done the experiment Cliff? I think what you just wrote has been done thousands of years ago..and some groups developed some sort of civilization while others (guess where)didn’t even know about the wheel until they came in contact with more advanced ones. And even after contact or trades were established some ‘areas” STILL didn’t develop quite well enough. If your reasoning was true that we would have a uniformly civilized world…which we do not have. IQ baby..Matthew is damn right and he’s too polite. You and Cook live in the “climate change” world..where “theories” are made science without much evidence to show for.

  • Matthew

    Clifford & Jim,

    One final thought before I retire from commenting on this article. At all points I have been courteous, thoughtful, and data driven in sharing my views. I’ve provided not only my beliefs, but my reasoning behind them, and even the references that show some of the texts that have helped to form those beliefs.

    At various points throughout this thread both of you have accused me of racism, ignorance, and demonstrating “very interesting psychological phenomena”. In short, I think this entire exchange demonstrates exactly what is wrong with politics and academic discourse in America. Opposing views are not entertained or even tolerated, especially when they run up to the edge of what is considered politically correct by the elite. Those who dare to raise such troubling (yet very real) issues such as disparity in mean IQs across groups are branded as ignorant, racist, or insane. Psychologists manage to discuss these issues in their academic journals very rationally, it’s a shame that American public at large can’t.

    Thanks again for all your comments and I wish you both the best of luck in your endeavors.

    Matthew

    • J Clifford

      Matthew, it is not courteous, thoughtful and data driven of you to distort research in order to insult people on the basis of ethnicity.

      You say that we don’t entertain “opposing views”, and yet we’ve given you the arena to try to provide a reasonable basis for your beliefs, which yes, are racist.

      It isn’t daring to accuse Africans of having a special biological prediliction to stupidity, Matthew. Please don’t expect us to uphold you as a hero for advancing these beliefs.

      We’ve responded to your claims point by point, and explained their flaws, but you’ve gone on and on as if these flaws don’t exist.

      This isn’t about what’s politically correct. It’s about what’s correct. You may complain about being “branded” as ignorant and racist, but no one has tied you down and burned you with a hot iron. You have exposed your own ignorance and racism.

      If you really think that a lack of incoherent racist ramblings based upon a determined misinterpretation of available facts is what’s wrong with politics in America, I suggest you go watch some videos of Donald Trump. You’ll be reassured in no time.

      • frank

        That’s why you and Cook just don’t get. No one is doomed to anything. Some ethnic groups developed first some will have a longer time span!! Is that difficult to understand> No one is asserting superiority of one race over another but just that DNA characteristics differ. If that is acceptable for canines or any other animal species WHY cannot be acceptable for humans? PC is NOT science.

    • Jim Cook

      I asked you to document your claim that Somali immigrants to Lewiston, Maine have low IQs. You cited a book that draws from exactly ZERO actual observations of people either living in or emigrated from Somalia, an obvious fact in the book you have repeatedly avoided admitting. And confronted with that, you’re leaving. I wish you the best of luck working through your feeling of dissonance. Please allow yourself the cognitive space to think through the consequences of the contradiction between the feeling you have that people of African descent are inferior to you and the inferiority of the evidence you’ve provided to support that claim.

    • Jim Cook

      Matthew,

      I just pored through this discussion. The number of times in this discussion in which I have used the word “racist” or “racism” to refer to you is ZERO. The number of times in which I have accused you of “ignorance” or being “ignorant” is ZERO.

      I wouldn’t do any of these because you are not the primary subject of this discussion. The primary subject of this discussion is the observable fact that the period since Somali immigrants started settling to Lewiston has LOWER violent and property crime rates than the period before they started settling in Lewiston. The secondary subject of this discussion has become the lack of any specific support for your accusations that Somali immigrants in Lewiston:

      * are not the best
      * are not the brightest
      * do not have among them the next Steve Jobs
      * are, having come to Lewiston beginning in 2000, caught in a cycle of intergenerational welfare
      * criticize American values
      * accuse the majority of racism
      * have a lower than average IQ than others

      The problem is not that I’m calling you names, because I haven’t called you names. The problem is that documentation of your accusations against the Somali immigrant community to Lewiston is absent.

      Please stop playing the victim and making this about you. Instead, please address the multiple inaccuracies in your posts and your sources.

  • Charles Manning

    Jim Cook, your statistics and arguments are far more persuasive than those of Frank, Matthew, and others who’ve attacked you.

    Nothing I’ve read changes my mind about what I wrote here months ago: a Somali newborn is no less capable than a white newborn of becoming a loving, caring, intelligent, patriotic citizen of the U.S. Adult Somalis might have been adversely affected by circumstances in which they grew up.

    Assume IQ tests could somehow tell us something meaningful about Somalis who grew up without the schooling, customs, and environment that appear to foster the underlying intellectual framework upon which the theory of IQ testing is built. I think the tests would tell us what was different between the environment in which Somalis grew up and the environment of the people who create IQ tests. To be valid, IQ tests have to take account of such differences.

    Even if Somalis on average are below average, in some ways, compared to average in the groups Frank and Matthew belong to — whether because of the environment (including culture) in which they were raised, or because of inherent biological traits — that still doesn’t justify discrimination against Somalis. They’re human beings. Just as conservatives wouldn’t say that laws forbidding abortion shouldn’t apply to Somalis because Somali fetuses are somehow less than human, Somali adults must be accorded the same human rights as the rest of us. That’s the essence of “all men are created equal,” notwithstanding the hypocrisy of the slave holders who came up with that idea.

    The issue of what criteria should apply to admission of foreigners to the U.S. is another matter. I think there’s room to argue about that, as long as we bear in mind that Somalis are fully human and deserving of human rights.

    Again, congratulations to you and your colleagues for allowing free debate on your sight, and for your rational approach.

    • frank

      LOL ..rational approach? Statistics? What statistics firs of all? There are REAL statistics on large groups of refugees being on welfare and having high unemployment rates. The reason that Minnesota and Maine were picked by the Federal Government, the Lutheran Social services and Christian Charities are because of the generous public assistance system of the two states. Te experiment with the Somali has failed and that’s a fact. There has been very poor effort by their part in assimilating because their religious believes teaches them not to befriend the infidel!! Now, Mr. Manning, what makes you think that the strength in numbers will make their neighborhoods look much different from the the ones they have in their homeland? The concept that touching the American soil will make these people to leave their allegiance to a damn book, honor killings, female circumcision, Isis and become freedom lovers is completely absurd! Has nothing to do with humanitarian scopes or “they are human beings”. It’s common sense, thing that apparently people like you, Cook, and the whole gaggle of progressive idiots out there lack!! The same insanity has struck France decades ago and look what do they ave to deal now!! Another massacres was just avoid in Frances few days ago!! Are you guys out of your damn minds?
      before 1960 immigrants have pre-requisites: had to have some money, prove not to be burden to society, have a sponsor. Now, immigration policies and the refugee programs created by progressive policies are just plainly out of control!! Since 1980 we had an average of 100000 refugee a year!! Now add to that the chain immigration allowed by the absurd immigration law of the ’60..and you can easily see that we have an out of control system!!! Not to mention the frauds that have been committed!!! Guess who’s profiting from this out of control business!!! two of the names are indicated above. You know who’s Tamerlan Tsaernaev mr Manning?? Do you know that his parents were admitted in the US as “refugees”? You know the outcome of that!! What does it take one of your family member to be killed, murdered, raped Mr Manning, Cook, Clifford? Wake the fuck up. And please check the Statistics before opening your mouth..

    • frank

      http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/resource/office-of-refugee-resettlement-annual-report-to-congress-2013, and here are the FACTS and Statistics, the real ones! That’s the HHS report to Congress that show CLEARLY that 3 in 4 refugees are STILL on food stamps!
      “Additionally, nearly half were on some form of cash assistance and more than a half were on medical assistance. More than 20 percent were on Supplemental Security Income, more than 22 percent were in public housing and nearly 20 percent were on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF).
      The report noted that many households received more than one type of assistance and the data dealt with refugees who arrived in the U.S. between March 1, 2008 to February 28, 2013.
      Refugees from Africa and the Middle East were the heaviest users of cash assistance at 61.9 percent and 68.3 percent respectively. Latin American refugees only used cash assistance at a rate of 8.1 percent and South Asia used about 42.7 percent. Data for Europe and the former Soviet Union was not available.
      The use of food stamps — or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) — also varied with 88.9 percent of refugees from Africa, 91.4 percent of Middle Eastern refugees, the Middle East, 72.9 percent of South Asia, and 36.7 percent of Latin American refugees using the benefit.
      Overall, according to the report just 50 percent of refugee households in the five year window were self-sufficient.”
      You progressive can go to hell with your humanitarian BS, not with my damn money, millions of American out of the labor force, millions of CITIZENS that live under the poverty line and 18 trillions in debt!! Refugees and immigration my ass! Time to put a stop to your and the progressive nonsense!!

      • Jim Cook

        … demonstrating that African immigrants are roughly comparable to Middle Eastern and South Asian immigrants, and that really the outliers are immigrants from Latin America. That’s a nice report; thanks for linking to it. It shows over and over again the commonality between immigrants from many different parts of the world, with the notable exception of Latin American immigrants. This one difference, in turn, is not a surprise, because the social policy of the United States has been dedicated in recent years to Latin American immigrants as a “problem,” leading to a variety of behaviors that target their immigration and criminalize it.

        The statistics you describe indicate that immigration and immigrants are shaped by societies and governments. They don’t say anything about genes.

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