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A New Low in Race-Based Immigrant Bashing: “Proving” Somalis Have Lower IQs Without Measuring Somalis’ IQ

Since I moved to Maine six years ago, I’ve heard a fair number of people tell the story that Somali immigrants have turned Lewiston into the most crime-ridden city in Maine. Two years ago, I decided to stop listening to stories and start looking at actual crime statistics.  The truth is that the city of Lewiston is far from the most crime-ridden city in Maine; it ranks right in the middle of other cities in Maine, with about half above and half below.  Looking further into misconceptions about Somalis in Lewiston, I shared federal crime statistics indicating that actually, the period before Somali immigrants began settling in Lewiston is characterized by a much higher crime rate (in both property crime and violent crime) than the period after Somali immigrants started settling in Lewiston.  The drop in crime rates in Lewiston has occurred while more Somali immigrants have moved to Lewiston, and while other Maine cities without Somali immigrants have seen their crime rates go far, far up.

But there’s just no convincing some people.  About a week ago, a visitor named Matthew shared this comment:

“I acknowledge and appreciate that these Somali’s probably had very difficult lives back in their homeland. But as a citizen of the United States and a resident of Maine, I find myself asking what benefit are we getting from allowing these folks immigrate here? How are they making our country and state a better place? I’m all for immigration, and bringing the best and brightest minds to the US so our nation can prosper. But these people aren’t the best and the brightest, they aren’t the next Steve Jobs, they are destitute folks who come here and immediately get caught in a cycle of generational Welfare. They criticize our cultural values, they accuse the majority population of racism, and they preach a religion that in certain respects is brutal and medieval. They bring down the average IQ of our population (not a pretty fact, but true), and they burden our schools and business with increased language requirements and cultural sensitivity training.”

I asked, in return,

“Matthew,

“Do you have documentation that Somali immigrants in Lewiston:

* are not the best?
* are not the brightest?
* do not have among them the next Steve Jobs?
* are, having come to Lewiston beginning in 2000, caught in a cycle of intergenerational welfare?
* criticize American values?
* accuse the majority of racism?
* have a lower than average IQ than others?

“I agree with you when you say “let’s look at the bottom line.” The bottom line is that you’ve made these specific claims about Somali immigrants to Lewiston. Do you have specific documentation to support these specific claims? If not, please retract them.”

Matthew’s response after that point centered on the claim that Somalis are a low IQ variety of human being:

“Thousands of IQ studies have been conducted worldwide, and as anyone who follows the psychometric literature knows, Africa and many other third world regions score very poorly. Somalia’s average scores are in the 59-71 range, which means that the average individual from that nation is in the mildly retarded classification. (1)

(1) http://memolition.com/2014/02/27/who-are-the-smartest-people-on-earth-world-map-of-average-iq-scores/

Let’s look at that link.  Go ahead.  Click it.  You’ll see a highly infographicky map with nice production values.  But the website isn’t the source of these “thousands of IQ studies” about “Somalia’s average scores in the 59-71 range.”  No, the website refers to a book of “research” by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen.  You can read statistical extracts from their book, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, right here.  I found a full copy of the book myself.  I read it.

You may find it hard to believe what I found — but then again, perhaps you won’t be so surprised after all.

Here’s the snippet in the table in which “Somali IQ” is supposedly reported:

Somalia, an IQ of 68? What nonsense!

There it is — according to the authors of that book, Somalia has an IQ of 68.  It’s an odd assertion to begin with, because after all nations don’t have IQs.  Individual people do.  This is a classic ecological fallacy.  But it’s worse than that.  You may find yourself asking what that little asterisk next to the 68 is for.  Is it a multiplication symbol?  No.  The asterisk leads to a notice on another page that in the case of an asterisk, they didn’t actually collect any results of any IQ tests at all.  Not a single person from Somalia had their IQ score measured for the book, or for any study used by the authors of the book.  There are literally zero points of data to support an “IQ Score” of 68 for Somalia.

So where does the oddly precise “68” come from?  Look to the right.  Do you see the text “Ethiopia 63, Kenya 72”?  If you read the “methodology” section of the book, you’ll find out that when the authors had no observations at all for a country, that didn’t stop them.  They just declared the IQ of that country to be the average IQ of the studies of the often very few people subjected to psychometric tests in adjacent countries.  Somalia is next to Yemen, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Kenya.  Djibouti and Yemen aren’t counted, because the authors don’t have access to any data for those nations.  So they:

  • took average IQ scores from the studies they dredged up in Ethiopia and Kenya,
  • then assumed that the scores in Ethiopia and Kenya were representative,
  • then assumed that “Somalia’s IQ score” was an average of Ethiopia and Kenya’s, but not Djibouti’s and Yemen’s, “IQ scores”
  • all the while mistakenly forgetting countries don’t take IQ tests.

The authors literally just looked at Ethiopia’s “score” and Kenya’s “score” and picked a number in the middle and proclaimed that Somalia has an IQ score of 68.  That’s their “methodology.”

It gets worse.  What are Ethiopia’s “score” and Kenya’s “score” based on?  As is typical for the studies used in the authors’ book, small numbers of scores derived from tests of odd and unrepresentative sets of people.

Let’s start with “Ethiopia’s IQ.” If you look up the notes for yourself and follow the citations, you’ll find out that the Lynn and Vanhanen didn’t find any measurements of anyone’s IQ in Ethiopia, either.  The best they managed was to gather 250 IQ scores from 14-to-15-year-old Ethiopian Jewish immigrants to Israel, living in Israel.  The source was a 1991 study by Shlomo Kaniel and Shraga Fisherman’s, “Level of performance and distribution of errors in the Progressive Matrices test: A comparison of Ethiopian immigrant and native Israeli adolescents” in the International Journal of Psychology.  These youths had been moved to Israel only one year before and in their lives in Ethiopia had been especially deprived, even compared to their fellow countrymen and women:

“In Ethiopia, Jews generally lived in small villages of 50-60 families, remote from urban centers…. Participation in formal elementary school was impeded by the long distances between home and school, travelled on foot. High school education necessitated either a move to the city, at great expense, or prohibitively difficult travel. Consequently, few Ethiopian Jews were able to receive formal education….  Prior to their exodus, most had never seen electricity, a telephone, or any technological instruments. In Israel, they must adjust to climatic differences, life in urban centers, a new language…” (p. 26)

But Lynn and Vanhanen take this astoundingly unusual small group of young, uprooted, uneducated youths not even living in Ethiopia, discover that their “IQ scores” are unsurprisingly low, and adopt that average score as the “Ethiopia’s IQ.”

What about the estimate for “Kenya’s IQ?”  In a 2010 paper published in the journal Learning and Individual Differences, Jelte M. Wicherts , Conor V. Dolan, Jerry S. Carlson and Han L.J. van der Maa revealed that Lynn had excluded a sample from his estimate for Kenya because the IQ in the sample was too high.

Biasing the scores from one country, importing scores for another country from a wildly unrepresentative group, and using both to charm up a completely fictitious average score for a third nation, Somalia.  That’s the basis for Matthew’s decision to reject Somali immigrants to Lewiston.  It’s wrong factually.  And because it’s wrong factually, it’s wrong morally.

As I said, there’s just no convincing some people.  When I pointed out that there were actually no observations of IQ in Somalia to back up Matthew’s claim, did Matthew change his mind.  No.  Instead, he simply refused to confront that fact.

Frankly, my hope in writing this isn’t for Matthew.  My hope is that someone else reading this, someone whose mind isn’t quite so committed to a falsehood, will be willing to let that falsehood go.

108 thoughts on “A New Low in Race-Based Immigrant Bashing: “Proving” Somalis Have Lower IQs Without Measuring Somalis’ IQ”

  1. frank says:

    ..and you haven’t still explained why, if IQ theories are skewed and not truthful, Africans in general perform very poorly in EVERY place you find them. Very simple question…but apparently you, Clifford and Manning are not able to answer. If is not IQ than WHAT IS IT? How many Somali Bantus do you have in your home?

    1. Jim Cook says:

      Because they don’t.

      Slippery language point #1: What exactly do you mean by “perform very poorly”? Tell me precisely by what observable standard you’re judging that and I’ll be able to have a conversation with you.

      Slippery language point #2: “Africans in general perform very poorly in EVERY place you find them.” Which is it? Are you talking about:

      A) the performance of Africans in general, which is a single observation of overall tendency? Like other overall tendencies, it is a) an overgeneralization, and b) attributable to multiple causes, such as educational, environmental, health and economic conditions, all of which are strongly correlated with the social product psychologists call “IQ.”

      or

      B) performance in EVERY place you find them? Because that’s simply not true. Africans have produced astonishing marvels. Africans produced one of the founding major civilizations of the planet. Africans have earned Nobel prizes.

      Thank you, by the way, for implicitly acknowledging that Lynn and Vanhanen’s book is dreck.

      1. frank says:

        I don’t know if you’re for real mr Cook. Do i need really to explain what does it mean “perform poorly”….really? Africans have achieved marvelous things? Where and when? Please give us done examples! Nobel prizes? Lol..yeah sure..Obama won a Nobel prize!
        Back to the perform poorly: economically, socially, educational..and on and on. CAN’T be serious right? Would you say thay any African Nation has standards compared tp Western Nations? And at home..Detroit, New Orleans, Baltimore…pretty much everywhere else where they have government majority…REALLy Cook?

        1. Jim Cook says:

          Yes. Because you asked a vague and internally inconsistent question, you really do need to be specific before I can provide an answer.

          You can look up African Nobel recipients for yourself.

      2. frank says:

        ….I’ll be standing by for your non evidence! So far you haven’t disproved Lynn’s research…cause you CAN’T. There is obviously not a definitive answer on how intelligence works or it’s developed and there’s much more to be discovered. That doesn’t mean that their researches have to be discarded. The IQ and the combination of genetic characteristics are pretty much very accurate in predicting outcomes of socio economic achievements in groups of people. How can you deny the evidence..escapes my comprehension. By all means..no one says that gaps can’t be filled and equalised in the future. But we haven’t discovered yet how..and, btw, doesn’t mean that some people or races are “superior” to others! That’s not the intent here! It is just to present the facts!! You have this preconceived notion that saying that it is about disparaging people for hateful reasons! That’s where you are wrong.

        1. Jim Cook says:

          I certainly did show that Lynn and Vanhanen’s claims regarding Somalia is absolutely false, and regarding Ethiopia and Kenya is laughably poor, which is precisely what this article is about. Given their poor methods in these instances, I see no reason to place any trust in their book otherwise.

          1. frank says:

            No you didn’t. You expressed YOUR opinion on why YOU think their researches are not valid. We are talking about averages here and the facts of the world seem to sustain the IQ research. As i said, there is no scientific certainty on intelligence, but genetics and IQ testing predict quite accurately how ethnic groups determine their achievements. Somalians and their land fall into that category and the IQ attributed to them corresponds to their non-achievements in their own land. What is that you do not understand about correlation of evidence and these theories? They are self evident and clear!! You haven’t answered my question on the marvelous achievements of Africans. That would be very helpful if you can point to me some of these achievements! On the Nobel prizes matter..told you that Obama won the Noble prize, that tells you pretty much how far PC has gone.

          2. Jim says:

            Oh, all right.

            It’s my OPINION that if there are no measurements of IQ in an entire nation, then you don’t know what the average IQ of that nation is.

            It’s my OPINION that if your only measurement of IQ for a second nation comes from a small set of kids who have emigrated away from that nation and have never had the opportunity to go to elementary school and don’t know the language of the new land where they now have only lived for a year, then you don’t have an accurate indication of the average IQ of that nation.

            It’s my OPINION that if you have excluded IQ scores for your third nation because the results were too strong, you’ll have a biased indication of average IQ in that nation.

            If your OPINION is that these practices are fine and dandy, then we have nothing to talk about.

          3. frank says:

            Jeez…measurements have been done and they calculated the averages, which are pretty accurate. Do you think is possible to sample every single population in the world? Statistics are used for averages, what is that hard to understand? And what makes you think that Somalian are that different from Eritreans or Ethiopians? Or Ugandans from Hutus ..or Zulus? Do not avoid the basic question using stupid sophism. You are fixated on Somalians, are you Somalian? Do you know any achievement by Somalians in their own land? And it is not about Somalians only..we are taking about all kind of cap we are importing from the 3rd world! Lewiston: 1000 Somalians? Wait until they get more…are you avoiding the Minnesota awful failure of Somalians as community? AND do not avoid the question: give me some names of African marvelous achievements!! That’s the 4th time i asked you. You affirmed that they have accomplished marvelous achievements and let’s set aside the Nobel prizes, not much to see there in terms of engineering, physics, electronics, biology and every other scientific field. Literature? sure…Peace? Sure…they are giving those like candies. Those are the only ones that they can get it. Explain that mystery also!!

          4. Jim says:

            You have provided no measurements of IQ in Somalia. Period.

          5. frank says:

            LOL..your non answer…rest my case. You have proven that Somalians are geniuses…LOL. What a pathetic progressive loser.

      3. Emil says:

        IQ has been proven to be 50-75% hereditary based on twin studies that took into account various socioeconomic and cultural factors. There’s also a bunch of anthropological hypotheses regarding why Africans and Hispanics have lower IQs as compared to whites and Asians. This post isn’t an argument, I just urge you to explore some of the IQ twin studies from various ethnic backgrounds. I respect your post for it’s skepticism of what is a sensitive racial topic, but consider the idea that if different ethnicities have very significant differences in our size and musculures, based on evolutionary adaptation to environments, then it would follow that our brains would not be independent of this change. In the same way that it isn’t racist to say an average black guy is taller than the average asian, and therefore is more likely to be successful at basketball, a sport which values height significantly. The same applies for IQ. I agree we should be skeptical and scrutinize scientific research and the stuff from those books before generalizing, though I would bet that Somalian IQ is near its neighbors, some of which have had valid studies. I’m too lazy for sources and I don’t care enough so take this with a grain of salt but just some stuff to consider 🙂

        1. Frank says:

          Soomeone has not been looking at recent events around the world. Somali integration failed, most if these savages will not and do not want to integrate. They go on welfare, contributions to society: zero. Cookie doesn’t get it…not until his daughter gets raped or him mugged or stabbed or blown up. In Europe, they haven’t learned the lesson after Charlie Hebdo and the Paris massacre and they keep paying the consequences of their stupidity. They keep pushing for this nonsense and Cologne happensand stabbings, women harassed and other goodies. Not only that! Insane leaders, like Merkel, Cameron and the same Hollande order the local officials to cover these deeds up and punishes whomever speaks out. Nazi style. Cookie…just doesn’t fucking get it.

        2. J Clifford says:

          Take it with a big lump of salt, folks.

          Emil just laid down a huge number of wild assertions about reality… and then admitted that he’s too darned lazy to find any actual evidence to support his claims.

          In other words, he kind of made it up off the top of his head.

          1. Frank says:

            The evidence is for Africa, for example, in Africa itself, still struggling and still third world…decades after second WWII. AND..no sign in sight of any improvements. If that is not evidence, right in your face….

          2. J Clifford says:

            All humanity came out of Africa, Frank. What on Earth are you babbling about?

          3. Frank says:

            Ehi Cliff, the problem is not the geographic location. Lol. Keep telling you that….makes you feel better. The world is not what you like it to be..reality is different. That is what is wrong with modern liberals….

          4. Jim Cook says:

            It’s not evidence.

          5. Frank says:

            Oh yes it is…

          6. Jim Cook says:

            Oh no it isn’t. Look for the logical error you make.

          7. Frank says:

            ..still waiting on that list of African accomplishments, just like the Obama’s Muslim contributions to the fabric of the US, lol…

          8. J Clifford says:

            No, you’re not, Frank. People gave you that months ago.

          9. Frank says:

            No I didn’t. It was a ridiculous lust with 5~6 names on it. On that list one name was Barnard, a white man, while the others were Nobels in literature ( wonder why). List of accomplishments…want a real long one Cliff? And, there is zero Muslim contribution to the birth of America and zero contributions. True that Arabs, not Muslims, have some contributions to humanity. Again, if you want to see a real list i can make you happy..none coming from Africans. It will take a long post…

          10. Frank says:

            No, I did not receive any list of contributions. Only 5-6 names with a heart surgeon, white, on it and few African blacks that won the Nobel for peace and literature (wonder why ). Contributions…Cliff! The list of European, or Arab (not Muslims) or Asians contributions to humanity is endless, from the electricity to vaccinations. That’s a “list”. There is no list of African contributions because there are none!!! Just like the list of Aborignes contributions to humanity, zero! In regards to “Muslims” contribution to America, we have to use negative numbers. Another post was reading “google them, look for yourself”! LOL….there is none!!! LOL.
            Facts are FACTS Cliff..

          11. Jim Cook says:

            Right, J. Clifford. We gave Frank exactly what he asked for… and now he’s scrambling as you can see here to resolve the cognitive dissonance.

    2. Bashir says:

      It is true that these guys imagined Somlia’s IQ and thought it is Just like Eithiopians or Kenyans … heck us next to Yemen
      Somalia correct IQ is *84 .take this for sure

      1. Jim Cook says:

        It’s absolutely unproven, Bashir, as the article demonstrates.

  2. frank says:

    My question is very specific and not vague: name some achievements obtained by the African geniuses. Standing by.

    1. Jim says:

      Look up African accomplishments yourself. The main topic here is Lynn and Vanhanen’s book. You haven’t properly specified your first question yet, so I still can’t answer it.

      1. frank says:

        Yes i replied. IQ are related to ethnic achievements. Evidence is out there, visible, provable. YOURS is not. And I have researched African achievements..there is none. Unless you consider achievements murder, rape, Aids, corruption, tribal warfare, slavery (yes!!)…

        1. Bashir says:

          Fine , It the rating is based on Europeans and Americans were the most destructive human beings ever recorded in WW1 and WW2 . Go check your dirty history in the USA civil war .and wars you lost in Vietnam how many women and children you raped to death.

          Somalia has the best IQ i could imagine since I have travelled extensively around the Globe.

          Somalis were enslaving people but they were never slaves . Somalis are Non-nigros

  3. frank says:

    sorry for the mistakes. ..typing from my phone. That was not cap…but CRAP we are importing, obviously. One more on the Nobel prizes from Africa. NB in sciences… they are either North African Arabs of African whites (yep there are few left..until they complete the killings).

  4. Robert Milnes says:

    Frank, you are wasting your time arguing with Cook. I tried it and got nowhere.
    In fact a LOT of the leftists are self righteous snobs.
    That’s why they haven’t had a successful revolution yet.
    Quite the opposite.
    You gotta admit the Obama Nobel Peace Prize was kind of lame.

    1. frank says:

      They are snobs that do not put their actions where their mouth is. They all live in nice neighborhoods..away from Somali and all the other crap we are taking in. I would have their asses placed straight in the ghettos or the little Mogadishus or other similar 3rd world shitholes that they contributed to create here and see how they like it. Btw…Cook!!Where is my answer on the marvelous genius of Africans..Somalians, Ethiopians, Kenyans, Ugandans? I have been waiting!!! Since you talk about a “new low”…where is this cultural enrichment that proves my “bigoted” views?

  5. Robert Milnes says:

    Jim Cook, how do you explain the disparity in favor of jewish Nobel winners?
    Oppenheimer and Teller in charge of the nuclear bomb research?
    Einstein/Reich?
    Salk vaccine etc?
    Not to mention 2 jews portraying Vikings in the movie? Kirk Douglas/Tony Curtis.
    And Kirk/Spock, Shatner/Nimoy, jews?
    Judge, landlord’s attorney, lsnj.org defense attorneys in my eviction all jewish?

  6. Larry says:

    I find it so puzzling that conservatives have this overwhelming NEED to insert themselves into liberal / progressive websites / blogs to strictly to attack positions established.

    All that ends up getting accomplished is the racism, the fringe wingnpositions, the fascist posturing of those individuals.

    I noted that NOTHING was posted addressing the STATISTICS as to the crime rate in Lewiston. The fact that it is NOT the highest crime rate in Maine nor the fact that it was actually higher BEFORE the influx of Somali immigrants. That’s because this issue is a solid scientific issue.

    But the issue argued on and on ad nauseam up to this point is based on Junk Science, on pseudoscience… And can be twisted to mean all sorts of garbage (as Richard Lynn clearly did in his book… when the wasn’t being outright unethical and doing things like removing an IQ sample because, in his opinion, it was too high).

    And then the (LMAO) quote about “North Africans Arabs of African whites”!!!

    Oh yeah, those people are called “Trolls”!

    Jim, the FACT is that it’s very doubtful that you have ANY “Bantu Somalis” living in your house.

    Simply because Somalia is not, nor has ever been, a part of the Bantus NORMAL initial homelands or areas that they later migrated to (those original and later areas both being central and southern Africa, NOT remotely near East Africa where Somalia is located.

    Some Bantus HAVE immigrated into Somalia over the last couple hundred years – as well as Pakistanis, Indians, Ethiopians, Persians, and even Italians and Britons who COMBINED currently make up just under 15% of the Somalia population (having for the most part originally immigrated there as traders, merchants, businessmen, administrators, etcetera, and families then stayed on).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples
    (See homelands and migrations map)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Somalia
    (See Other Ethnic Groups)

    Also, over 85% of Somalia’s population is “Somali” (a specific ethnic sub-branch that is “Afro-Asiatic” and CLOSELY related to Ethiopians, Berbers, and… North African Arabs!).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_people
    (See specifically under Genetics)

    Talk about ignorance and Racism (with a capital “R”). Of course the spelling and grammar errors already identified some significant ignorance (likely reflective of a lower IQ, in my experience).

    And, like they say, ignorance in the Age of Information is so offensive as to be an abomination!

    As to responses back to this posting, PLEASE…

    I do not respond to Trolls.

    You see, in a battle of wits and logic, I refuse to debate an unarmed person!

    1. frank says:

      Here is the Fascist of the day!! The idea that only “liberals” are entitled to their opinions and those opinions are the “good” ones, is typical of the left Fascist progressives, which have become a cancer today. Common sense doesn’t apply anymore but just an idealistic vision of the world that makes everyone “equal”. I just don’t understand why the equality idea has to apply only to our Western nations but not to others. Your compassion is admirable. I wonder if you asked yourself what would happen to your candid ass if you moved to Saudi, Somalia, Kenya, Yemen..any other shit hole out there and try to claim your civil rights, women rights, property rights and so on. The answer it is obvious. For some reason “don’t do to others what you wouldn’t want done unto you” doesn’t apply to other people, just to the Western ones. We give up rights to every backward population that would gladly kill you if you were to ask the same in their own turf: terrorists, foreign lawbreakers, illegal immigrants and so on. Is it racist to point out the FACTS. Is it racist to be disgusted of the nut job progressives that waste hard earned money of hard working people of all colors in “social engineering” or “do good experiments”? I don’t want even waste time on your stupid, idiotic, comment if the Somali Bantu and your moronic dissertation on their origins. Who gives a fuck. That was just a question..i could have used any other primitive ethnic groups out there. Lewiston..Somalis crime…the point is not the crime per se but the fact that these refugees go straight on welfare, at mine and yours expense. Their low skills and education places them right into the situation to grow a Muslim ghetto. Have you forgotten France and the Muslim ghettos? Have you forgotten the home grown terrorism problem, the poverty, the lack of assimilation caused by senseless progressive policies? Is this what the West want/ Suicide? here is NOT a single advantage or benefits from taking in these backward culture, not a single one!!! You, diversity and multiculturalism fairies, are planting the seed for social unrest and eventually a civil war. Just matter of time. Yugoslavia hasn’t taught anything to you and your peers,speaking about ignorance. On the merit of conservatives posting on liberal blogs, my fascist friend. is not what a discussion is supposed to be? If you cherish freedom of expression, as I do, you should be happy to hear the other side and trying to debate the issues. Calling me a fascist is just shutting down the discussion and THAT is fascist! What is next …burning conservatives books? On the grammar and errors…well you are being racist now. Ever thought that i might a be a foreign immigrant that loves the West and the US in particular? My hear cries seeing what you progressive fascists are doing to our Nations. believe me, when the numbers will be reversed, the others won’t be so kind…Zimbabwe and South Africa teach.

      1. Jim Cook says:

        Eyeroll.

        On the actual subject at hand — the methodological craters in a race-bating book by Lynn and Vanhanen — you have nothing to say.

        So instead you give Larry a hard time for pointing out that you’re getting your African ethnicities wrong. “Who gives a fuck?,” you say to him when he asks you to be accurate. Obviously, you don’t. You “know” what you “know” about those “primitive ethnic groups out there,” and apparently nothing is going to convince you otherwise.

        1. frank says:

          On the Lynn book i said that his researches are valuable and are correlated to facts. Nations with low Iq do worse than the ones with higher IQ. Can’t dispute the facts, Nice try. prove the opposite if you can. Lynch and other proved theirs with evidence in the real world. I am not giving Larry the cable guy any hard time and I didn’t get any ethnicity wrong. I just said if you are willing to take any Somali Bantus, which do exist, in your house. Nothing else. Didn’t mention history, ethnic history or other. You and Larry are building stuff around it that you just pulled out of your asses. As far is my question. What do you want me to be specific about. You sad that there a marvelous accomplishment of African people and asked you to mention some to me. I am re asking the question: can you point so of these marvelous accomplishments to me? that’s the 5th time…
          Jeez..and my native tongue is not even English. Hard to understand eh Mr.Cook?

          1. J Clifford says:

            Frank, nations don’t have IQs.

          2. frank says:

            Oh Lord..you know what i mean. You guys are really out of answers…

          3. J Clifford says:

            Frank, what I want you to do is to go and have a cup of coffee, and then look down.

            It’s the most brilliant drink in the entire world. It gives you energy and mental focus. It protects against a huge range of diseases. It was the fuel of the Enlightenment. It’s the engine of Western commercial culture.

            It’s an African invention, Frank. Straight out of Africa.

          4. frank says:

            LOL..coffee is an invention? so, using your definition of invention..Pizza? Coffee would a marvelous contribution? For sure changed the world for better!!! LMAO
            That’s all you have ..really? Don’t you see how ridiculous you are Cookie?

          5. J Clifford says:

            Frank, what do you think happens? Do you think your coffee is collected from coffee lakes as it falls from the sky during the night? Do you have any idea what goes into the process of working coffee beans into a palatable brew? Apparently not.

          6. frank says:

            Coffee!LMAO..that’s a marvelous accomplishment!! LMAO. After days..that’s ALL you can come up with. Coffee…a plant and they didn’t even perfect the industrial production of it and other processes, which happened in the West!! You kidding..right?

          7. Jim Cook says:

            To counter your claim that Africans are lowlifes in”every” circumstance, all that has to be shown is one positive performance by an African. They abound. Nobel laureates from Africa counter your claim. You should retract that statement.

          8. frank says:

            ok..they abound. Where are they? and you called Africans “lowlife” not me. We are trying to ascertain the validity or non validity of IQ in creating some. So..if they abound..where are these marvels? ONE.
            Coffee is not a marvel. Just like apples, or tomatoes.
            Still dancing around Cookie…

          9. J Clifford says:

            You’re a troll, Frank. What’s more, you’re a racist troll. Multiple people have addressed every single point you bring up, and you refuse to acknowledge this. You don’t have facts on your side. You can only point to hastily-cobbled propaganda to support your fantasies of European superiority. You roll around in bigotry like a pig rolls around in mud, frank, and we’ve tried to convince you that there’s another way of living, but you don’t want to give up a life of filthy, ugly, rotten ideas that have been discarded by all decent human beings.

            Where this racist chip on your shoulder comes from Frank, I don’t know and I don’t care to know. Your neo-Nazi ideals fail to impress. Your inability to maintain a string of rational thought fails to impress. Your deceptions are paper thin.

            Does hate keep you company?

          10. frank says:

            LOL. No answers and here it comes the name calling and the word every loser uses: racism!!! No one addressed any point that i brought up and you haven’t still answered the question. It’s like talking to a wall. Sound waves rebound..deaf.If mine was propaganda you would have answered my question already. And has nothing to do with European superiority, but facts. No race is superior to another. But we must acknowledge the differences if we want to fix problems and solve them Otherwise let’s fall into the Detroit pitfall. Sweeping under the rug..that’s the progressive way.You roll into stupidity Cookie and when the last resort is name calling and the race card, with your assertions falling apart like a castle made of butter brick walls. Pathetic loser.
            You know where you can shove the race card..where the sun doesn’t shine!

          11. frank says:

            People’s like you have created and perpetuated the ghettos, the poverty, the masses of third worlders that will never see anything but the bottom of the American dream. Pushed down by policies of servitude and handouts for no other reason but “compassion”. Throwing money and useless social programs at a problem that will never be solved. Your progressive ideas are a disgrace for the human race and the development of human intellect. Creating the new plantation, that’s what your ignorance of simple facts have created. The West will fall because of people like you..people that refuse to see. You know Cookie…when you will be able to see,then you will be able to actually help the poor. In the meantime ..wait for the day where the ghetto will reach your pathetic rear end.

          12. frank says:

            ..”the engine of the Western commercial world” ..LMAO. Yeah the world wouldn’t function without it.
            Cliff..time to retire. There is NONE. Fact.

          13. Bashir says:

            The argument will be closed by me whether Somalis have better IQ or not!!!!!!

            It is the Faithful Somalis to tell ,teach and Determines IQs of people but not the unfaithful …..who refused to listen to their Creators call !!!!!!!

        2. frank says:

          ..and again, errorrs…phone minuscule keyboard folks. But Cook is intelligent enough to understand the half words (unless he’s Somali..LOL).

          1. Jim Cook says:

            Reread my first response to you on this thread.

          2. frank says:

            Still waiting for an answer Cookie!!

          3. Jim Cook says:

            Reread my first response to you on this thread.

          4. frank says:

            “B) performance in EVERY place you find them? Because that’s simply not true. Africans have produced astonishing marvels. Africans produced one of the founding major civilizations of the planet. Africans have earned Nobel prizes”
            Verbatim, i have to spoon feed it to you, since you don’t get it. Let the Nobel prizes out, which are mainly on subjects like peace, literature..guess given out out of PC, GIVE me ONE astonishing marvel produced by Africans, Somalians, Ethiopians, Kenyans..whatever (IQ is about the same on AVERAGE). Is that difficult to answer? I guess so. Because if it was not….you would had already providing a list of marvels!! In comparison, if you ask me to list you the astonishing marvels produced by Europeans..i can come up with a quick answer and tens of “marvels” without dancing around the subject.
            On the major civilizations on the Planet..if you intend Egypt. that’s lie. Egyptians were not blacks and that is offensive towards Egyptians. That matter has been settles decades ago and only uneducated ignorant people or black supremacists still believe it.

        3. frank says:

          Nobel laureates in what? Peace..?
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Nobel_laureates

          that’s the list..pretty pathetic.
          Are these the marvels?

    2. frank says:

      Forgot..i want to ask you the same question that i asked mr. Cookie (who has NOT answered yet..because he can’t)!!! If IQ researches are wrong and biased..then explain why there is a perfect correlation with low IQ and achievement. Quit with your “racist” crap and give us an explanation. Why Africa, for instance, was, is and will be a shit hole no matter how much money, foreign aid, and whatever else we will do. Colonialism? White Supremacy? is that your explanation folks? Really?

      1. Jim Cook says:

        As I’ve said before, I will answer your question when you specify what you mean.

        But you’re not really interested in doing that, are you?

  7. Robert Milnes says:

    Are the jews superior? The chosen people? What?
    After the war the Germans let a bunch of foreigners in. Esp Turkish muslims. I don’t know what they were thinking. Probably thinking like you do. Anyway, now Germany, England USA etc have homegrown islamist terrorists problem.
    Include the jews in that virtually all of them. Because if they are asked to do just about ANYTHING for Israel, consider it DONE!
    Evict Bob Milnes. Make his ex girlfriend possible first lady disappear. Give his friend with high I.Q. a shot of ADEM brain virus germ warfare. etc.

    1. frank says:

      Exactly..try to explain common sense to these progressive morons..

      1. Jim Cook says:

        You two are your own theatre. What a shame your subject isn’t comic.

  8. Robert Milnes says:

    Judge Lee Laskin. Lori Greenberg, attorney-at-law, Ginsberg,Podell, attorneys, lsnj,sjls.org Legal Aid. Camden County, NJ.
    Amy Solomon MD, Boulder Creek, CA.

  9. J Clifford says:

    The greatest benefit of articles like these, Jim, is that they make it clear that, in spite of our hopes to the contrary, racism and other forms of bigotry are alive and kicking in the United States, and resilient to rational refutations.

    1. frank says:

      Racism? That’s the word liberals use for “truth”…

    2. Robert Milnes says:

      What I’m saying isn’t racism, mister.

      1. frank says:

        In fact it is fascism: covering the truth…mister!

  10. Robert Milnes says:

    You wouldn’t dare attack the Cosby victims. As racist because he’s black? Imagining things? Trolls? I think not.
    Stop writing bullshit about Trump or Bernie or Somali I.Q.s. Do some REAL work investigative reporting on something very important-even vital.
    Yes, Israel could dupe the U.S. into nuclear war. They probably planned it years ago and are well on their way.
    Meanwhil;e you are kicking bob milnes around in some sort of self righteous frenzy. Wasting time and energy on an otherwise perfectly good rag.

  11. Robert Milnes says:

    Clifford and Cook, you don’t get it. You just don’t get it.
    I have been ATTACKED for decades by the DHS/FBI. Come to find out, they have been coordinating with the Israeli Mossad-against ..me & YOu & anybody/everybody they don’t like for whatever reason. Usually it is leftists. But some rightists. Minorities, except jews, etc. The inclusion of the Mossad which can contact ANY American jew, increases the available labor pool i.e. operatives, spies, provocateurs, lackeys, dupes etc. by 6 million. The jewish American population. Otherwise the FBI is limited to about 13,000 agents + other fe4deral agents plus any others they can manipulate usually via the criminal justice system. e.g. do this for us and we’ll get your sentence reduced or parole/probation or work release etc. Far from 6 million I assure you.

  12. Robert Milnes says:

    As an attacked person, I have the right to at LEAST ask questions about my attackers. And the right to self defense.
    YOU on the other hand have the OBLIGATION to help me get recognition as an attacked person. NOT ATTACK ME YOURSELF, you moron.

  13. Robert Milnes says:

    I compare my situation to that of the rape victims of Cosby.
    First it was one in a lawsuit silenced by out of court settlement. Then another years later. Then another. Then several who noted a pattern and realized they weren’t the only one.
    Write about spying and political dirty tricks, such as in The Age of Surveillance by Frank J. Donner. That’s where I learned about snitch-jacket when I realized that is what happened to me in a halfway house. Maybe others can make similar recollections and realizations. And come forward.
    A good place to start would be paulie cannoli. I’m convinced he was owned by the FBI decades agao, then was transferred to the Mossad. Now he’s well infiltrated into the libertarian movement and involved, almost running Independent Political Report. paulie-jewish, IPR owner Warren Redlich Solomon, jewish.
    Facebook, jewish owned.
    Also check into William S. Saturn. Something fishy going on there. I think he was kidnapped in August 2013.
    Check into ADEM germ warfare victim Mark K. whose doctor was Amy Solomon, jewish. Boulder Creek, CA 2006.
    Many such examples on my blog.
    How about Nazi leader William Luther Pierce author of The Turner Diaries died of cancer-I think not-in 2002 at the height of his career. I think he was kidnapped and taken to Israel and tortured/ brainwashed.
    He’s probably mopping floors drooling on tranquilizers in some facility in Israel.

  14. Robert Milnes says:

    Clifford and Cook et al., what a bunch of assholes. I posted this almost a full day ago. NO further COMMENTs.
    What a bunch of assholes you are.

  15. Burning Light says:

    Here is my attempt to reconcile the two sides. The liberal/anti-racist side of the argument rightly denies any conclusive statement made without scientific evidence. The conservative/race-realist side rightly uses anecdotal evidence knowing that rigorous scientific proof can lag the truth by hundreds or even thousands of years. For example before the world was scientifically proven to be round, it had already been round for a VERY long time. The flaw in the liberal/anti-racist thinking is thinking that anecdotal evidence is not useful or valuable. The flaw in the conservative/race-realist thinking is trying to argue some objective view of the facts as if such an argument is possible to win. People make decisions as groups based on emotion. Emotion comes first and the facts to rationalize that emotion come second. The liberal/anti-racist will reason the same way, starting with the “right” viewpoint and justifying why it is so. The conservative/race-realist will start with what they see as the truth, though it may appear unkind. Simple solution, if you want to be heard then speak according to the listening style of the person you are talking to. Acknowledge anecdotal truths that are visible to the conservative/race-realist. Acknowledge the emotions driving the liberal/anti-racist.

    1. Jim Cook says:

      That sounds good, except for the fact that anecdotes are not a sound basis for declaring something to be so. If your goal is to make friends with racists, then go ahead and embrace anecdotes. If being accurate is your goal, don’t.

      1. Frank says:

        people like Cookie are the ones destroying Europe. The Merkels, Hollande, Renzi, Cameron…no matter how many Paris like terror attack will continue n the path of self destruction, bringing these savages into the West. And the Cookies of America will continue to push for the same bs not matter the failures of integration and the evidence of such. If these idiots would get their loved ones or themselves murdered into one of the future culturally diverse attacks only then,may be, they would understand. I wish we had a life span of 200 yrs to prove how wrong liberals are….but unfortunately the ones that will pay for their stupidity are our children…your children as well Cookie.

        1. J Clifford says:

          Destroying Europe?

          In what sense is Europe anywhere close to destruction?

          You’ve got awfully expansive definition of what’s destroyed.

          1. Frank says:

            May be you need to research more on the crime wave that is devastating the most beautiful Nations of Europe due to senseless immigration policies. May be you need to research more the non assimilation of Muslim culture and population in Britain, France and central Europe. May be you need to research more on the fact the the Scandinavian nations were virtually crime free until they opened the doors to immigration from Muslim and African Countries. Rape was non existent in Countries like Sweden, Norway but now, thank to liberal (what a coincidence) policies, the wonders of diversity has struck there also!! If you can’t see beyond the length of your dick, is not my fault Cliff. With this trend Europe, as we know it WILL be destroyed!! If not for the simple fact that a civil war will occur in the likes of the Yugoslavian one then for the permanent changes n population make up. Is so predictable. Merkel, Hollande, Cameron and their followers are destroying the very civilization that which they belong. Here in the Us the problem has been contained, as far importing savages from Africa and the Middle East, We have a problem, mostly related to Latin America but, nonetheless, we are directed toward that kind of situation if we do not stop ALL of it. The facts are simple: can’t turn backward savages in first class citizens without a slow process of assimilation. Huge numbers of immigrants and refugees will not allow “assimilation” but only “segregation”, like is happening in France and Britain. The civilized world will pay the consequences of their politicians stupidity. Bet you what you want on it…if only we had a longer lifespan.

    2. J Clifford says:

      You’re right, Burning Light, except in this: You’re wrong. Anecdoctal “evidence” doesn’t contradict the statistics of what’s actually happening with Somali immigrants to the United States.

      There’s no possible way that actual evidence about the relatively easy integration of Somali immigrants in the United States could be lagging for thousands of years. The USA hasn’t even been around for 250 years.

      Anecdotal evidence IS useful in adding context to quantitative evidence. It isn’t useful in refuting it.

  16. Korky Day says:

    Thanks for all your seemingly well-intentioned contributions. None of you are trolls. See article on Internet trolls in Wikipedia.

    How do we judge Somalis in Maine?
    Put a huddled mass of poor refugees in a rich country.
    Then if they don’t do well according to the values of that country, who has caused that? The relatively powerless people or the powerful rulers of Maine and the USA?
    If the USA wanted to ensure the success of everyone, native-born and immigrant, they could do it fairly easily.
    Guarantee breastfeeding, health care, education, and good jobs for everyone, etc.
    But that would be too socialistic, wouldn’t it?
    The rich 1% wouldn’t be able to exploit us as much.

    The alleged country IQs obviously are meant to be averages, so to keep hammering the point as if you don’t know that is silly.

    Coffee is a blight on the earth.

    1. Frank says:

      ..another idiotic Bernie Sanders follower?
      1) WHY do you have to put third worlders, with different culture and beliefs, many of them Muslim backward savages, in a progressive Nation? IS IT mandatory to place people that live in the 15th century in North America or Europe? Explain me this part.
      2) The US had millions of immigrants at the beginning of the Century and was NOT providing breastfeeding, free healthcare or any handouts and WE became the most powerful Nation in the world. NOW we are handing out freebies to everyone and we are declining as society. Must be because of liberal/socialist policies gone too far?Education and hard work is up to the individual.
      3) If the IQ argument is so silly, then explain the consistent different in performances of different populations around the world, independently from where they live. Very consistent with the IQ theory.
      3) Your Somalian friends are being recruited by the hundreds by Isis. Just sayin’…integration…
      4) When will you liberals understand? When a civil war will happen? Surely you are preparing the ground for it!! May be you will get it when one of your daughters will be raped..or yourself blown up while attending a concert or sipping a coffee?
      5) get used to Trump or Cruz as President..it will take a while to unfuck what Bush and liberals have fucked for the past 12 years.

      1. Korky Day says:

        You might be confusing me with a Democrat, Frank.
        I’m a Green. Bernie Sanders is my second choice, Donald Trump my third.
        I oppose the immigration of Muslims, Jews, and Christians who believe the Bible or the Koran, etc. Those books are all imperialistic, murderous, and misogynous.

        1. Frank says:

          Green..even worse, as fanatic than a religious zealot. Climate change ..Planet Earth is your God. Gaia!!
          Just to clarify my thinking. Religion is not the problem…is what you do with it that causes problems. Christians have been polishing the harshness of the Bible, through the language and teachings of the Gospel. Add a mix of philosophy and other movements, like the enlightenment, there you have MODERN Western civilization. Is the Bible BS? Most certainly so..but, at least we have built our cozy and progressive civilization around it. Every progressive idea or movement have flourished inside the Christian West, including anti-religious movements or the Green movement!! So, before you criticize, think twice who, what and why. The followers of Medieval Islam are surely excluded from immigrating her, Trump’s way. But..we do not need anymore immigrants, from anywhere, you are right on that!! How can Bernie Sanders be your second and Trump your third..this is weird!! From communism to fascisto-capitalism? Hell of a jump!
          yes..you are confused

  17. Korky Day says:

    I’m a pinko Green, so Sanders is pretty close, Frank.

    As far as Donald Trump, his policies are misunderstood–through the mainstream media lens. He’s kind of middle of the road, really. I like his personality more than his policies, the latter being flexible, I hope. His personality it to succeed, not to adhere to some doctrine.

    Take ‘ObamaCare’, for instance. Trump wants to repeal it and replace it with something better and cheaper.
    The only way to do that, however, is by making it more socialistic, but he doesn’t want to use that word for fear of offending Republicans.

  18. University educated Somali says:

    You are an incredibly unbiased and excellent journalist and I hope you know that. I love how you countered every single one of his racist claims, which only goes to show how paranoid and backwards his “facts” are.

    Thank you for writing this article. I look forward to reading more from you!

    P.S. Here’s a relevant quote this reminded me of (even though you clearly and objectively won this argument)….

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” – George Carlin

    1. Frank says:

      ….sure. The best citizenry that the US has ever had. We need more of these Sharja- Isis lover-welfare leeches ibackward medieval savages. And i am not putting only the Somali in this category! I equally don’t want ANY one of these savages from any backward Islamic shit hole or, as matter of fact, ANY shit hole from around the globe. I don’t want to argue with idiots, like yourselves, as you said..but i have to. It’s beyond the stupid or idiotic to believe that stone age savages can become outstanding citizens of any of the nations of the west simply for touching our shores. The facts and the actions of these animals speak for themselves…but someone is not following the news. It’s going only to get worse until people will react. There will be blood…thanks to people like Cook, Obama, Hollande, Cameron, Merkel. I see it, clear as day and night….

      1. Jim Cook says:

        You know, Frank, if you’re going to try to push your rhetoric about non-white people being inferior to you, you really ought to check your spelling.

      2. Educated Somali says:

        Wow. Firstly, I should point out that your over use of the word “savage” when talking about immigrants from non-christian/non-WHITE countries is further evidence of your deeply ingrained belief of white supremacy. Secondly, you clearly depend on these racist beliefs because you are deeply insecure about your own personal and professional failings in life. As a result, your low self-esteem may have led you now to desperately want to be seen as an “outstanding citizen” (which I assume you think is a white person like yourself). The problem is that even if you try to associate your self with this imaginary white grouping of “outstanding citizenry” it won’t negate your personal harsh reality.

        All in all, it has been interesting seeing you try so hard to justify your bigotry, but I will have to end our conversation here.

        1. Frank says:

          There you go. “race card” and “white supremacy card” played, as usually ignorant leftists use to do to shut down opposite views. If makes you happy..i use the word savages equally, among Christians and non Christians. Muslims are a special kind of savages though, because of their firm belief in a ideological-theocratic type of society. But i don’t want “savages” from any shit hole around the World! Would it be Haiti or Sudan. Amazing how you know so much about my life! You have a special gift i see.
          Now, on a serious note, i don’t want people that do not and will not assimilate. Has been failing in Europe and i don’t see why we should repeat it here in the US. I base my “racist” views on common sense and facts. I think you have seen what is happening in Europe correct? Do you really think that the people of Europe will passively take this bs coming to them? There will be a reaction and not a pleasant one!! The problem with you liberals is that you see an imaginary world as if it was real, while reality strikes people lives, kills them and destroys communities. Multiculturalism has failed and will continue to fail, but your world is made of stupidity and liberals keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again and making more deadly ones. Until everything crumbles and people will do what they have to do to survive and preserve their freedom: a blood bath. Your imaginary world created 9/11, S. Bernardino shooting, the carnage in Paris, the problems we have seen in Germany with “savages” assaulting” women and we can go on an on. If these are not acts of backward savages that are bound to medieval beliefs you tell me what it is. You know people like yourself when will they get it?t..Either one of your loved ones needs to be caught in one these animals rape or killing spree or yourself been blown up while watching a fucking marathon!! Bigot my ass. Wake the fuck up. ..BTW..show your ignorant race and white supremacist card up your arse…

          1. J Clifford says:

            “You know people like yourself when will they get it? Either one of your loved ones needs to be caught in one these animals rape or killing spree or yourself been blown up while watching a fucking marathon.”

            Nice, Frank. Way to show that you’re superior to “savages”.

            Just how likely is it that anyone will be raped or killed by a Somali immigrant?

            The statistics show the odds are so small that they’re practically zero.

          2. Frank says:

            Oh yes, I am superior, we are! WE in civilized nation don’t go around chopping people’s head off, we do not mutilate female genitalia. WE respect other people’s opinion, treat women with respect, gays with respect. WE , civilized Nations, have laws that equally apply to ALL, civil rights that equally apply to all. YES, Clifford, YES..we in the West are superior as civilizations and we CANNOT afford not to slide down the path of savagery again. Rape?Statistically? For now! Until YOUR friends and people like yourself will complete the planned invasion of the US as well. Forgot the complete submission to the illegal crossings from Latin America? We have to thank God that at least we have thousands of miles between us and the Muslim savages otherwise idiotic liberals would have done the same they have done to Europe already. Across the ocean we have examples of what the US will be if we let YOU have it your way. Rape was basically unknown in Scandinavian Nations until few years ago..but when people like YOURSELF and Cookie had it their way…well you know the results. To hell is going to happen here. Immigration with common sense and NOT invasion with stupidity.
            Wake the fuck up.

          3. Jim Cook says:

            So angry, Frank. I think Educated Somali must have hit pretty close to the mark. Thank you for admitting in this comment that as of now, immigrants are not incarcerated for crimes at a higher rate than so-called “superior” people like yourself. Your white supremacist identity (that’s what you have just come out of the closet as) relies on a fictional future in your head in which (in your mind) immigrants start acting differently than they actually do now. Why are you so interested in maintaining furious anger based on a fiction you’ve concocted?

          4. Jim Cook says:

            P.S whose bombs have killed many thousands of innocents in the Middle East? Ours. Superior?

          5. Frank says:

            There you go..the Bush’s war. So they are justified in coming here and bomb us, behead us, killing us while watching concerts or Marathons? Right? WE go there to do one thing: WAR. People die. They come here, upon our compassion and understanding, or Europe to BETTER their lives right? Not to make war…right? That’s what you liberals believe….and you’ll understand your mistake when is too late. So let me get this straight, trying to understand here: Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and few others..which, notwithstanding the fact they are among the richest Nations on the planet, are refusing to take even 1 refugee and WE allow them in the WEST. According to common sense, difficult for a liberal to apply, tell me if you see anything wrong with this picture. Tell me what is wrong with the fact that people , “children (my ass)”, travel on foot for thousands of miles to get to the West and are refused by each one of those Countries,even Turkey, ….while welcomed by stupid governments of Western Europe and Obama. If this “anecdote” doesn’t disturb you…then i have no other solution for liberalism/newfascism. There will be blood.

          6. Jim Cook says:

            You deny that children are among the refugees? That’s interesting. You also have missed that Turkey actually has taken in refugees. Finally, you mistake accurate description for moral argument. Please don’t be so sloppy.

          7. Frank says:

            More;;if we were not SUPERIOR…they would not want to come to the West…you stupid.

          8. Jim Cook says:

            If you were superior you could come up with a variety of better explanations. Fortunately, with effort you can do better, just as all people of all colors and national origins can. Try again. What else could explain the trend?

          9. Frank says:

            I gave you one: freedom, respect for human rights, women, gays, frredom of expression, enterprise. And a whole lot more, not really common in Muslim Nations and many African and Latin America ones! You just don’t get it, don’t you? A box of rocks has a higher IQ than you sugar Cookie!

          10. Jim Cook says:

            Frank,
            You sure are getting angry at being called out. You brought up the “race card” with your anecdotal theories, which conveniently ignore violence against refugees in Europe and the pattern for immigrants to the U.S. to have *lower* incarceration rates, not higher.

          11. Frank says:

            Getting called out on what? Your false and bigoted accusations? You liberals are so good at pontificating! So righteous and tolerant of other people concerns and opinions! So tolerant that if they disagree with you…race cards are thrown out on the table like candies. Sound like fascism and intolerance to me. Tolerance towards people that are breaking the law, bomb us, behead and hate us..but intolerance towards people like me that speak out and had enough of your bs. Mine are not “anecdotal” you dumb fuck. Calling anecdotal the Paris massacre? The Charlie Hebdo massacre? The molestation of women all across Europe? The rape surge in Sweden, Norway and Finland? Anecdotal ? The minors/sex slaves trafficked in Britain, Rotheram, and covered up by local authorities? I can go on and on and list hundreds of examples of daily violence perpetrated by people that do not want assimilate and HATE the West and SHOULD have not let in anywhere in Europe or the US, Muslims and non. Inexplicable why Muslims even want to come here!! Violence against whom? Really? Tell me about any example in that magnitude and scale !! Tell me about a refugee or an immigrant beheaded in the the street, daylight..like occurred to Lee Rigby! Tell me about an act of violence similar to the Fort Hood shooting perpetrated against immigrants! Lower incarceration rates? LOL..more than half of the prison population in NY is black and Hispanic. The trend is National..unless you count, like often is done, an Hispanic from SA as white. Look more carefully at the data Cookie! What good does it do to have jails and prison if felons, mostly illegal felons, are let out. Remember the Steinle case? Plenty of other cases like that! Had been an American citizen with that record, he/she would have stayed in JAIL probably. Illegals felons roaming free around our cities, because of stupid idiots like you, Obama, Pelosi and the whole gaggle of incompetents up in DC. Anecdotes my ass.

          12. Jim Cook says:

            You, as a typical white supremacist, mistake social category for biological reality and mistake immigrant status as synonymous with both. You’re quite angry, which indicates that some part of you is quite aware you’re making errors. Please evaluate your post for those errors.

          13. Frank says:

            As a typical liberal idiot that has no other means to argue but using the “racist” and “white supremacist” cards you just don’t get it and will not get it, until personally affected, which i hope will happen. Biological or social reality? What about just “reality” sugar Cookie? let’s start with the “refugee children” lie f the left and its minions. It’s a fact sugar Cookie that the vast MAJORITY of the refugees are adult males and NOT children or families. FACT. If nothing else, just browse to the videos broadcast all over the world of waves of these derelict marching through Europe. Another FACT, many do not come from war zones but from everywhere else but Syria. Follow the news in Europe and you WILL see. So, spread your socio-fascist lies to your comrades not to me. Turkey? Yeah..they are taking millions in and guess where they re going once inside Turkey? the vast majority wants to go and enrich nations like France, Germany and Britain. Turkey has not appeal as far is job aspiration. Guess you forgot that. Just like Italy, Turkey is the port of entry. Charts of migration are available online, free. As you can see your “children” bs can be thrown out of the window. Honesty in reporting doesn’t belong to a fascist-like zealot.
            Back to your social/biological bs. Put it like you want sweet cake! The problems we are having in Europe and the US outweigh the benefits. In Europe are paying now the price of years of nonsense. Biological factors are not so much important as the social factors. We are having problems and Europe is having problems, how much more evidence do you need to understand that the “fears” of MILLIONS of citizens of all colors are legitimate? How many more Fort Hoods, Paris massacres, Charlie Hebdos, San Bernardino, 9/11 you need to have to understand that? Do you understand that having someone beheaded in the middle of the street, Lee Rigby, does not belong in the West? Shall we reach the daily bombings and beheadings level they have in those countries? Don’t we have enough or our own problems with crime? Why do we need to import more? Don’t you see Yugoslavia coming? try to look beyond the extension of your dick Cookie. keep writing bs on your Pravda like blog.

          14. Frank says:

            And let me ask you a question sugar Cookie: How many for you is too many, refugees or immigrants? one million..2..20 ..300..1 billion? Why don’t we take the whole 2.5 billions of poor in Europe and North America? Is it ok to depopulate entire nations and relocate them? What kind of Syria will be left when we take in their 20 millions people? Who’s paying for them? What about India, Japan, China, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait etc…why they won’t take any? WHY do WE have the “obligation” to take in all the desperate of the world? People like yourself open easily their mouth and spit nonsense without thinking at the consequences. People are paying with their lives for the mistakes of people that can afford NOT to live around third world immigrants. Liberal politicians and liberals in general should put their action where their mouth is and be part of the general population that has to live with the mess caused by them. YOU, liberals, should be the first ones to take into your homes these poor needy people..see how that goes. How many are you helping Cookie?

          15. Jim Cook says:

            Ha ha! Is it ok for you to move the Moon to New Jersey? If not, why aren’t you funding space lasers and outlawing meteorites? You’re arguing emotionally, not logically.

          16. Frank says:

            No answer, not even a logical one. Because you don’t have one. And you call me “emotional”? So..it’s “not” emotional to take in millions,no questions asked, just because they stir “emotions ” and “compassion” but it is “emotional ” refusing ANY intake unless severe scrutiny is applied, based on security concerns (your refugees CANNOT be vetted) or considerations made upon socio-economics factors (unemployment, poverty IN our Countries, assimilation etc.). If this seem logic to you….

          17. Jim Cook says:

            If you’re so interested in logic and facts, then show me the count of “millions” of Somali immigrants. I think you’re hyperinflating again.

          18. Frank says:

            You are very “special” aren’t you? It is obvious that you have no answers, and logical ones. You understood my point, just can’t say that makes sense. Millions it’s obviously referred to refugees/immigrants in general. We have taken millions and we, unfortunately, continue to do so. Not counting the “millions” of illegals that are already here and, thanks to you idiots, will continue to come, because “invited” to do so by senseless policies. If you want to get serious at least just say it: ” I am for open borders”, no matter the consequences and you don’t care HOW we are going to pay for it. You would expect, from intelligent and college educated people, that they would understand the “signs” of discomfort and disruption that senseless policies bring into organized and civilized societies. But i guess history is not teaching anything. A piece of paper from a College doesn’t make people smart. In the meantime…your Somali friends keep joining Isis, soon to be followed by our Syrian refugees, Iraqi refugees, Afghani refugees. What difference does it make…

  19. roberto brown says:

    Jim “the race cuck” Cook

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