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Let The Great Right Wing Freakout About Transgender People Going To The Bathroom Begin

Today seems to have been designated as the day when right wing zealots nationwide freak out about where transgender people go to the bathroom.

Recognizing that, let’s give the discussion something that it desperately needs.

Dear right wingers who are running around flapping their arms about transgender kids and bathrooms, please provide me two simple bits of context:

1) The number of times during 2016 so far that transgender kids have attacked other kids in public school bathrooms in the USA

2) The number of times during 2016 so far that transgender kids have attacked other kids anywhere in public schools in the USA

If you’re feeling that 2016 so far is too difficult a time frame within which to find an Attack Of The Transgenders, try 2015 – the whole year.

Postscript: So far, no one is able to find me the context I was looking for, so let me provide a little of my own: Last year saw a record high murder rate against transexuals in the United States. Also, more than 25% of transgender people have been physically assaulted because of their gender status. It looks like violence by transgender people isn’t nearly the problem that violence against transgender people is.

40 thoughts on “Let The Great Right Wing Freakout About Transgender People Going To The Bathroom Begin”

  1. ella says:

    Do NOT get me started on your statistics maneuver Peregrin Wood. This is not a laughing matter. And if it takes calling someone “right-wing” to get this sneaky-while-we-have-diversions way of degrading the American public school systems, then I Am definitely “right-winged’, although in all fairness is take two wings to fly. This is not just about some people who believe they would rather have had a penis or breasts. This is about a kid saying, oh today I am gay. And since I am a boy, I will go into the girls bathroom. The parents have gone through all the channels to get the boy into the girls bathroom. He is 14 years old. There are little girls in there at the same time. A 7 year old is curious and wants to see “it” – and it goes on from there. But that is only one part of this problem. The President of the United States does not have the right to tell the Public school systems to do anything. The Congress cannot legislate personal bathroom behavior in the school systems. The local school boards have the right to make certain decisions. And if anyone in America is stupid enough to allow the government to dictate the moral behavior in the public schools – then those who want to follow that course of action go right ahead and do so. The rest of the children can be educated in other educational institutions. The is not a dictatorship yet. Other people in this large society have rights, and obligations to see to the rights of those of their personal beliefs.

    1. Jim Cook says:

      Yes, Ella, this is your worry. But, as Peregrin asks and I ask too, do you have any indication that transgender people are disproportionately likely in measured fact to assault people in bathrooms? If not, please own this as your worry and not necessarily as fact.

      1. ella says:

        I will use the word concern. You use the term ‘people’. There are different age groups, from infancy to adult. Psychological damage can be done at any age. A recent article (no I do not have the URL right now) about a young woman, 25 I believe, that was given permission to use assisted suicide. She was tested and determined beyond being helped with the PTSD she continued to suffer from sexual abuse from childhood – she wanted to die. There are more than physical repercussions to early stage sexual introduction, that includes exposure in public places. That is why is it illegal to run around naked in public. Or are you suggesting that it become the law that no one wear clothing? Adults mostly are aware of the physical anatomy of either, and even duo-sex individuals. Do you believe that a 12 year old male transgender (fourth grade age) would walk into a female bathroom without looking at the females in that area. Who do you believe would be most uncomfortable, the male or say a 10 year old girl? Do you believe that a 6 year old girl (first grade age) would think: ‘Oh, he thinks he is a girl, but that thing hanging down there isn’t like me.’ or maybe ‘He looks like the boys we were told had to stay away from us while we were in here.’ Or perhaps you are suggesting that this type of thinking never occurs to juvenile minds?

        1. Jim Cook says:

          No actual data, then.

          1. ella says:

            “No actual data, then.” by Jim Cook

            I am learning. That is propaganda speak for ‘we will nullify whatever facts exist that do not suit us.’ And nothing anyone says will make any difference – to you.

          2. Jim Cook says:

            No, it means something specific. It means actual, systematic, and representative observation of reality, as opposed to unsubstantiated anecdotes.

            It’s simple, Ella: if you’re going to discriminate against a class of people, you’d better have actual, systematic, and representative observations of reality to back up your discrimination. Otherwise, you’re engaged in prejudicial thinking, which is not a solid basis for messing around with other people’s lives.

    2. Horatio says:

      Ella, this is not a “maneuver”. It’s a simple request for facts.

      There are already many states and localities where transgender students are allowed to go to the bathroom that aligns with their chosen gender identity.

      If this is such a big problem, then there already ought to be incidents of the sort that you have claimed. So, if that’s true, Peregrin is simply asking for you to go and find the facts that support your case. If transgender people are the terrors that you suggest, it shouldn’t be difficult. If you’re just inventing stories from your fevered imagination, though, you won’t be able to find the facts to back up your story.

      Are you afraid that the facts won’t confirm your story, Ella? Is that why you refuse to look for the facts?

      By the way, factually, you’ve got some things plainly wrong in your tirade.

      First, being gay a being transgender are two separate issues. If you don’t understand the distinction, you’re misunderstanding the bathroom issue.

      Second, except in extraordinarily small communities, schools don’t have 14 year olds and 7 year olds using the same bathroom.

      A separate point you don’t seem to be considering is that students do get attacked in bathrooms sometimes, almost always by members of their own genders, as in this case: http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2016/05/09/doj-issues-warrants-3-teens-death-amy-joyner-francis/83866170/

      1. ella says:

        “Second, except in extraordinarily small communities, schools don’t have 14 year olds and 7 year olds using the same bathroom.” Horatio
        When I lived in an extraordinarily small town and went to school, student from first grand to eighth grade went to the same school.

        “First, being gay a being transgender are two separate issues.” Horatio
        They are not two separate issues, they are two different forms of sexual confusion, just as a cross dresser may not feel either of those impulses. None of them are newly coined behavioral activities and to the person involved, there may be no confusion what-so-ever. If they are comfortable with their own feelings on the subject, then they have nothing to prove to anyone. Just what group of any of these individuals is feeling like they suddenly need to air their particular persuasions for the sake of telling everyone else what bathroom they use? As adults they have been using they bathrooms all of their lives, have they not? The question then is, why now is there a governmental push to force students – regardless of their physical gender – to use the same bathrooms? Is there a shortage of room to build separate bathrooms so that a male can adjust himself around other men, or women can pull down a slip in front of other women and not feel their privacy is being invaded by males they have no wish to be intimate with? Indoctrinating little girls and boys in sexual orientation – with real bodies? Another social experiment to go wrong?

  2. Al Hopfmann says:

    Apparently, the author does not understand the concept of privacy. Such people usually also do not understand the concepts of coercion and slavery. Both are destructive to privacy and liberty. The whole current debate is fraudulent and beyond insane. It really shows how deliberately evil Obama and his ilk are.

    1. J Clifford says:

      So, you as well can’t offer the requested statistics. Got it, Al.

      When you go to a public bathroom, are you staring at all the other guys, Al? Maybe they’re watching you. There are stalls if you want privacy. Me, I never went to the bathroom at my high school, because that’s where the stoners hung out. You have a policy to overcome that privacy problem?

      1. Al Hopfmann says:

        No statistics are needed. It is all about privacy and its planned destruction by those evil people who would enslave us decent people and all others in between who have their own individualities. If you don’t understand that, I feel sad for you.

        1. ella says:

          ““…a law very much like the one which President Obama put into action last night has…” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hardball-transgender-bathroom-rights_us_573712c4e4b08f96c183554e?ir=Politics%3Fncid%3Dnewsltushpmg00000003

          I found this quote in a Huffing ton Post article and was surprised. Did Congress pass a law requiring public bathrooms and in schools be made available to all genders – because someone says they relate to that gender even if the are not? Or does someone believe that Obama has the legal, Constitutional authority to pass laws? You know, the courts have ruled that Obama did not have the legal authority to fund Obamacare, right? Just because he says this or that, it does not make it law. And, thankfully, some transgender people just want to be left alone, believe this is just a political maneuver of sorts.

      2. ella says:

        More propaganda statistic requests for a psychological and freedom of privacy issue take down.

        1. Jim Cook says:

          More actual data requests to test anecdotes.

          1. ella says:

            “More actual data requests to test anecdotes.” Jim Cook

            I appreciate that you are looking for, probably, violence statistics in bathrooms between transgender and all other the parties which might be involved. I am equally certain that suddenly someone has run out and done such research. I don’t know how much credence I would give it. That is not the issue though. the issue is the right of privacy. Someone here finally gave voice to that point. Also, that the group involved is not making these demands for themselves much less for children in elementary education – the President is doing that. Where are your examples, in history, of the governing body of any nation that has handed down the edict that children in public schools must bath, use the toilet, and dress in mixed gender showers, toilet areas, and dressing rooms? Adults, as I pointed out earlier, are already aware of the variations between male and female, to include those of dual gender that naturally occur. Even adults prefer to have the privacy afforded to same gender areas of partial or total nudity in public places, where you have no control over who may be present. And those who disagree with that fit in at least one of these two categories: (1) strange personalities (2) those who are comfortable in nudist colonies. I am sure there are others, but those come to mind. But that does not include children of elementary school age in public school surroundings.

          2. J Clifford says:

            In other words, you can’t find any actual facts to support your claims. You just sort of FEEL that your fears are right.

            Why should we base laws on such a fuzzy foundation, Ella?

            Your fears have no solid base.

          3. ella says:

            “Why should we base laws on such a fuzzy foundation, Ella?” J Clifford

            On what would you base such a law as: “Nationally, all children from First through Twelfth grades must be subjected to, in shower rooms, locker rooms, and toilet facilities, the presence of all sexes.”
            Of course this is considering that all adults in this scenario have keys to private areas for their own use and will not be, as well, using the same facilities as the children.

      3. ella says:

        ” Me, I never went to the bathroom at my high school, because that’s where the stoners hung out. You have a policy to overcome that privacy problem?” J Clifford

        Actually there is a policy put in place by the school board that covers that problem. It is called bathroom monitors. Like Janitors, in the men’s room a man is constantly there to ‘clean the room’ and observe to prevent smoking and doping – or report it. Likewise in the women’s room. A big city school I went to used that technique in the 1960’s. I traveled a lot.

    2. ella says:

      “If a person believes themselves to be of another sexual orientation and they need to use a public bathroom, wouldn’t they feel more comfortable using one for gays and/or transgenders? If a person has had surgical sexual changes made, then there is no need for saying they are transgender, they are physically altered. That is the civilized way to tend to the matter. Men do like to have time without women around. Gay people like to have time without straights around, have their own businesses and meeting places. Women do like to have time without men around. I cannot believe that transgenders are not like everyone else and would like to have a private space.”
      Just posted to Facebook by ella

      1. Al Hopfmann says:

        I recognize your common sense. The majority of “opinion molders” used to have that also. But in current times, most discussions are now being driven by evil people who have specific agenda. Many times it is pointless to argue with them other than to show sensible people that their is opposition to the insanity.

        1. ella says:

          It seems that it is a point being made by an administration that Americans, as individuals, actually have no personal rights of privacy. The only right of privacy concerns documents of record. As mentioned, indoctrination into slavery using personal/sexual coercion is most effective. Breaking down of cultural customs, eliminating individual personal spaces, forcing direct confrontational situations under circumstances that call for punishment, if not complied with. Begin with the children.

          1. Al Hopfmann says:

            Yes, you have identified several key elements of the path to slavery.

  3. ella says:

    This is just getting freaky. Now Obama is calling for insurance to pay to sex change operations. Is there something we don’t know about Obama?
    http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/obamacare-Traansgender-surgery-sex-changes/2016/05/14/id/728819/

  4. Dave says:

    Peregrin, where exactly did you get the idea that people are afraid of transgenders attacking them? Most of the millions who are opposed to it are men like myself who don’t want other men pulling it out in front of their wives and daughters. If you get a kick out of that, fine, but going to the restroom for most of us is not about sex but rather it’s about relieving oneself. How you feel about your sexuality isn’t relevant to the use of public restrooms.

    Jim said something about “messing around with other people’s lives” but how about the vast number of people who are perfectly able to use a restroom that is in use by others who have the same physical nature, and it doesn’t become a sexual issue for them? Why mess around with their lives?

    1. ella says:

      It has occurred to me Dave, that this is a matter of subjugation of the American mentality. Breaking with basic social mores, subjecting the children and adults to forced personal mental contact with opposite sexes in the most intimate settings, ignoring all possible repercussions.

    2. J Clifford says:

      When you go to the bathroom, do you “pull it out” in front of other men?

      Can you find any evidence that there is a problem of transgender people “pulling it out” inappropriately in the many states where the standard national policy on bathrooms in public schools has already been in observance for quite some time?

      Can you find any evidence at all for that, or are you just pulling pretend facts out of the air?

      1. Dave says:

        J, your long march through the institutions may have twisted your understanding of basic rights. Little girls have privacy rights. Male strangers don’t belong in their showers and restrooms. Where were you on this five years ago? Jumping on every anti-social norm bandwagon that comes along has a sort of “me too” vibe that doesn’t really stand as coherent reasoning.

        1. J Clifford says:

          So, then, Dave, you can’t find any statistics to back up your claims of a problem in states where transgender people can choose their own bathrooms.

          Right?

          1. Dave says:

            Since you like statistics, can you provide any that support your view that the less than one percent of transgenders have had any real problems using restrooms designated for the sex they were assigned at birth?

            It appears that the Left will jump at any chance to tell all people how to feel about things.

          2. J Clifford says:

            We’ve already supplied statistics. You have none. You are freaking out about nothing. This issue is about your fears and prejudices, Dave.

          3. Dave says:

            Or it’s about your fears and prejudices, J. I searched for the imaginary statistics you claim to have supplied, but didn’t find them.

            What is it about the privacy rights of little girls that disturbs you?

          4. J Clifford says:

            You have yet to show that there is any privacy threat to little girls from transgender women, Dave.

          5. ella says:

            WHOOOP! J Clifford you lost this and now you are claiming statistics that do not exist. But you have certainly brought out all of the viable arguments against the Congress ever considering such a law. Now if Obama will only openly admit he had no right to make those opinions appear to be an actual law in the first place.

          6. Dave says:

            Where are the statistics, J? And I do indeed have prejudices against men posing as transgendered women so as to gain entry to women’s restrooms. You are quite naive if you think it’s not part of the deal. Little kids need to feel (and be) secure. You are making a wonderful case for vouchers.

          7. ella says:

            And who gave the President of the United States the Congressional right to control the funds given to the states for public education. To allocate funds without Congressional oversight and approval? What precedence is this President seeking to set as a Dictatorial measure?

          8. J Clifford says:

            Congress did, Ella. Congress gave approval for the funds to be administered by the President.

          9. ella says:

            Guess I might as well say this: So, J Clifford you cannot find any statistics to support the position that males mixed with females in American bathrooms leads to embarrassment, fear, emotional trauma, intimidation. Why? Because until now, this has not been a situation in America. It is not a situation even in Europe among children in schools, either, is it?

      2. ella says:

        “Transgender people are people who experience a mismatch between their gender identity or gender expression, and their assigned sex.[1][2][3] Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another. Transgender is also an umbrella term: in addition to including people whose gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (trans men and trans women), it may include people who are not exclusively masculine or feminine (people who are genderqueer, e.g. bigender, pangender, genderfluid, or agender).[2][4][5] Other definitions of transgender also include people who belong to a third gender, or conceptualize transgender people as a third gender.[6][7] Infrequently, the term transgender is defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.[8]”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

        J Clifford, what is being said is fairly straight forward. Some people do not want their wives/sons/daughters/husbands/brothers/sisters, to be required by law to be in situations where they may be exposed to opposite sex intimacy visuals in person. Going to the bathroom and finding a person who feels he is feminine standing over a urinal might seem rather European to you, but most Americans are not yet down to that point in their social standing. You may want to send your young daughter into a men’s bathroom to relieve herself. Most do not find that a suitable situation and would oppose a law requiring it – mandating that, in public schools even, their children be forced into that situation.

        1. J Clifford says:

          I’m sorry Ella, but you don’t seem to be understanding this subject at all.

          There isn’t anything European about this. The issue is the gender that people have on their birth certificates – American birth certificates.

          You don’t want people “to be in situations where they may be exposed to opposite sex intimacy visuals in person”.

          1) A male-to-female transexual most likely won’t go use the urinals. In fact, the federal code for public schools would allow male-to-female transexuals to go use the female bathrooms, where there aren’t any urinals.

          2) There isn’t a situation where anyone’s “young daughter” would go into a “men’s bathroom”, because A) In public schools, a “young daughter” would be in an elementary school or middle school, using a child-designated bathroom, not an adult-designated bathroom; and B) If my daughter decided to become and was recognized over a long period of time as a boy, then after the time of transition, he would be referred to as my son, going to use the boy’s bathroom. I wouldn’t have a daughter going to the boys’ bathroom. I would have a son going to use the boys’ bathroom.

          3) Many transexuals have surgery to alter their genitals to fit their gender identification. So, if you were to force those transexuals to use the bathrooms that match the gender on their birth certificates, that is when you might have the sensitive souls you worry about being “exposed to opposite sex intimacy visuals”…

          4) …if it was a common practice for people to just pull down their pants and whip out their genitals in public bathrooms. It isn’t. I think you’ve got a weird idea of what goes on in boys’ bathrooms, Ella. The code is that you stand up close to the urinal, if that’s what you’re using, and nobody can see your penis. You just piss, and that’s it. If you use a stall, once again, nobody can see your penis. You zip it up before anyone could, even if they were looking, but they aren’t, because they don’t. Do you go into womens’ bathrooms and look at other womens’ vulvas?

          5) There’s nothing FORCING state schools to comply with the federal guidelines. The states that wish to do something else simply relinquish their federal education funding, which wouldn’t be a problem, except that the Southern states that are in a tizzy on this issue tend to not do a very good job at raising funds for their own schools.

          Please, educate yourself.

          You claimed that there is a problem with people being attacked by transexuals.

          Then, in this article, Peregrin Wood asked you and your ilk to justify that claim with facts.

          You can’t do that.

          A reasonable person would pause at this point to consider just what was really causing them to throw their fit.

          1. ella says:

            “You claimed that there is a problem with people being attacked by transexuals.

            Then, in this article, Peregrin Wood asked you and your ilk to justify that claim with facts.

            You can’t do that.” J Clifford

            Please, refresh my memory by posting a copy of anywhere I said: “…there is a problem with people being attacked by transsexuals.” Interesting concept, but not my concept. Even though transsexuals do cover a larger section of society than those who have had surgical sex changes, which after all do go to the bathrooms, shower, and locker rooms of their current gender anyway of course. Once again you have confused the adult population with children. Since I never have used a male bathroom, you would be correct in assuming I have no idea exactly what you guys actually do in there. But women do adjust clothing and talk about things that they might around a husband or significant other, that they would not necessarily do around other men. Just assuming that men do the same thing some suddenly go silent or obviously change the subject when women come in the room.. Children on the other hand are just becoming openly aware of themselves as a group. Girls naturally (for the most part) separate into groups as do boys (again for the most part) when they reach a certain age. Social structures for thousands of years have for some, to you apparently explicable reason, found the superior course of action is to keep males from females in private situations. Something about reproduction after a certain age, and concerns before that age. Does it require violence at those early ages? Maybe not sometimes, but either way is that what you want? Most of civilized society does not. But most states love that money more than their students. And yes, transgender includes girls as well as boys. So girls who identify as a boy, would be using the boys rooms as well. With unisex bathrooms, there are both little girls and boys.

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