Irregular Times Diaries: Unfit Discussion
In a time of the spring, old paths are obscured and new growth begins.
Irregular Times Diaries: Unfit DiscussionIn a time of the spring, old paths are obscured and new growth begins.
Let’s set this issue straight with some direct documentary facts proving that Barack Obama was against the Iraq war from the start - before the war began, and has stood by that position. These videos have historical footage of Barack Obama speaking out against the Iraq War before it was begun, and since then.
Barack Obama’s rivals cannot produce such video documentation of their early and consistent opposition to the Iraq War. There’s a simple reason why. They were in favor of starting the Iraq War from the start.
John McCain was an eager booster of invading and occupying Iraq. McCain even said that the whole operation would be quick and easy.
Hillary Clinton supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq from the start too. Since then, what’s Hillary Clinton’s position on Iraq? That’s really difficult to say - I’ll let Clinton boosters try to explain it. The simple fact is that Hillary Clinton gave her assistance to George W. Bush and helped him start the war. When a million Americans took to the streets to demonstrate popular opposition to the invasion of Iraq, Hillary Clinton did not join them. In fact, Hillary Clinton spoke out against the agenda of the antiwar protests.
Has Barack Obama always done exactly as I would have liked him to do on the issue of Iraq? No. However, only one presidential candidate has gotten it anywhere close to correct on Iraq from the start. Thus, only one candidate deserves our support for President of the United States. That candidate is Barack Obama.
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February 17th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
No, Obama doesn’t say he is against Iraq in any of these clips. He says he is against going in unilaterally.
As you recall, we didn’t go in unilaterally, we had a “coalition of the willing” with 22 other nations.
February 17th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Here is a link to the clip of Obama saying he didn’t know how he would have voted. Also he says he didn’t come out strongly against the war in the statement because he was toning down his remarks because of how the voters might react.
Also Obama is quoted as saying in July 2004, “There’s not much of a difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.”
And also “I think that there is room for disagreement in that initial decision” to vote for authorization of the war.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200711110004
February 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
But in these clips he absolutely does say, at the time of the resolution, and afterwards too, during the 2004 election, and during the 2008 election, that he would have voted against it.
One moment’s uncertainty and self-questioning about what might have been doesn’t stop that.
The videos show part of Obama’s speech in which he declared that going into Iraq was the wrong decision, and it comes up again too.
Your claims, Iroquois, in the face of the content of these videos, are amazing.
ESPECIALLY when you’re nitpicking Barack Obama’s itty bitty details on this matter, when your candidate, Hillary Clinton, was 100% wrong and has never apologized for her role in the matter.
This is worse than the pot calling the kettle black. This is like the pot calling an off-white piece of ivory black.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
“At this stage” refers to the AFTERMATH of the policy that Barack Obama was always against commencing, Iroquois. The intellectual dishonesty with which you are feverishly attacking Barack Obama does not serve your cause well.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Claiming you know who I am voting for is just about as stupid as claiming Obama has made an unequivocal statement against the Iraq war.
I can see you’re really upset, accusing me of “feverishly attacking”, but he said what he said, and the words are out there for everyone to read for themselves.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:29 am
No, it’s really not stupid, given that when Frank Liberal challenged you to say just one thing you didn’t like about Hillary Clinton, you couldn’t do it, and given the way you consistently attack Barack Obama using exactly the same petty arguments put out by the Clinton campaign, and given that you defend every outrageous statement that comes out of the Hillary Clinton campaign, and steadfastly refuse to deal with the fact that Hillary Clinton has a strong history of being pro-Bush and pro-War, to call Clinton “your candidate”.
It wouldn’t even be stupid for me to say I know you’re going to vote for Hillary Clinton, though that would be misguided, given that in this democracy nobody really knows who anybody else votes for, and it needs to stay that way. But then, I didn’t say who you’re voting for, did I?
Oh, and could you give me that “unequivocal” statement I made? I can’t remember it, and I certainly don’t see it here.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I know jclifford is going to vote for Hillary Clinton. He uses her name six times. Dead giveaway.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
No, no, Sammy, he is definitely going to vote for Huckabee. Notice how he says Hillary is “PRO-BUSH”, whatever that is. Hillary voted EXACTLY the same way as Obama, so that’s an attempt to discredit BOTH of them and reassert the conservative agenda.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Does anyone else think it’s kinky that jclifford and Frank Liberal and Curious Sam all think alike and defend each other? They are clearly trying to define the gay agenda, but why don’t they just come out (hee, hee) and say it. I bet those aren’t their real names either. They sound like porn names.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Oooh, Oooh, Angelica, did you hear the one about the two little old ladies sitting on the porch swing? One says “I’ll be Frank with you tonight if you’ll be Frank with me tomorrow night.”
I say they’re shills for an agenda all right, but it’s the Ron Paul rEVOLution. You see how they give Obama a free pass on playing the race card? They’re trying to establish a precedent for their own supremacist candidate.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
No, no, they’re supporting McCain. Obama’s such a big war hawk he’s going to make McCain look like a peace-bead wearing Jane Fonda hippie. Remember Obama said he’s not against all wars, just stupid wars. He’s a Harvard man, he’s going to show us how to make a war that’s not stupid.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Well, jclifford. I’m pretty impressed that you can get both Frank Liberal and Curious Sam to speak with you in one voice, as it were. I bet you could get God Himself to agree with you.
But in my corner I’ve got Sam, Sylvester, Angelica, Taz and the Mother of God herself. We all say you have an Agenda, and that this time you are letting the facts take a back seat to the narrative you are trying to advance. Otherwise you would be willing to discuss the issues and not the personalities.
Stop being so rude.