Perspective check for Creationists who insist that America’s children all must be taught to interpret the Bible as literal truth:
Scientists recently announced that they have found a bunch of 4,000 year-old millet noodles in China. They’re just noodles, but they’ve been documented at twice the age of the legendary Jesus character that fundamentalists keep pushing on the rest of us.
So, how does Jesus compare to noodles? Jesus doesn’t compare at all. In spite of the fact that zealots have been constantly searching the levant for generations, they have not produced a single shred of evidence that Jesus actually really existed as anything more than a character in a book.
The Shroud of Turin? Documented fake.
That burial container for James, the brother of Jesus? Proven to be a slapdash hoax.
Noodles: Found.
Jesus: Completely missing.
Now, there are plenty of Christians who don’t really have a problem with the idea that their spiritual model is completely missing in action, historically speaking. Whatever the historical reality of Jesus, they’re comfortable with the ideas that the character of Jesus represents in their book of religious ideology. They don’t depend on literal truth, and their convictions can withstand the triumph of an ancient bowl of noodles over the messiah.
Those poor right wing fundamentalists, though, are in the habit of taking things literally, so I feel sorry for them. Their holy man clobbered by a bowl of noodles. That must be a hard one.
I was going to pass this on to the Flying Spaghetti Monster people, but they’ve already picked up on it.
Actually, there’s pretty good evidence against the historicity of Christ: the earliest Christian texts date to the 1st or 2nd century BC, and the earliest extant text that refers to Christ as an actual person dates to 70 AD. Even that one is just a vague mention in passing; the first definite reference isn’t until 160 AD. The epistles of Paul make no reference to Christ being a man.
The explanation is that, in its origins, Christianity was a form of Jewish occultism. The Christ was the agent which Yahweh sent into the world to do his will. You couldn’t hope to understand, or influence, Yahweh, but maybe you could influence the Christ to bless you.
Later on, Christian ideas got mixed up with Egyptian mythology, and the Christ got identified with Horus. (I think this is why the Coptic Church, in Egypt, is considered the oldest Christian church—something that never made sense to me when I heard it as a kid.) Many/most Catholic churches have the symbols of the four evangelists around the door: an eagle, a lion, a bull, and a man. Turns out that these symbols trace back to the Assyrian god Ashur (Egyptian culture was heavily influenced by Assyria); temples to Ashur had these same four symbols guarding the doors.
Yes, religions tend to be a pick’n'mix of older religions… Would be nice to try to track them back to the most ancient forms, sometime…
That said, I’m pretty sure there WAS a Jesus who preached around… 234 AD? Spread out between 500 BC and 500 AD, anyway, because it’s a name, and not a stunningly rare one, either, same goes for its variations between languages (e.g. Joshua).
The chances of there not have been a Jesus of some description back then are pretty low.
Chances of him being any more important than the other preachers of the time? Hmm…
Wow… You know, Peregin, I honestly can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t take the bible literally. There is lots of evidence staring people right in face and no one even takes notice. I suppose you believe we all form from apes, right? Because if that was the case, I’d really appreciate you telling me why humans aren’t still developing. What does that have to do with the bible? Well, if not evolution, where did people come from? Also, do you really think that all the circumstances under which there is life on earth are coincidences? Our atmosphere is perfect for sustaining life. Earth is the perfect distance from the sun. (Did you know that if earth was even a mile closer or further away from the sun, life on earth couldn’t be sustained?) Do you really believe that people like me would be this adament about christ without reason? Do me a favor and research christ and his bible more… You may find it harder and harder to contradict me…
Danielle, who says that the human species isn’t still evolving?
Consider Danielle, that if the atmosphere was not right for you to exist here, you wouldn’t be having this conversation about why the atmosphere is right for you to exist here. That doesn’t mean that the atmosphere was made for you.
It’s like if you look up and see the sunset, and then conclude that it must be made just for you, because the conditions happen to be right for you to see it. Pretty self-centered.
It just so happens that no one knows what would happen if the Earth was a mile closer or further from the sun. There’s good reason to suppose that life would continue, if in somewhat different form. After all, some forms of life survive in solid ice, and others survive in boiling hot water. Some forms of life can live in stomach acid. Some forms of life exist far below the earth’s surface, far from the sun, feeding on minerals in rock formations. For you to conclude that these kinds of life wouldn’t survive if the Earth moved a mile closer or further from the sun is stretching credibility.
If you really take the Bible literally, then you must believe that it is a serious sin to eat lobster or crabs, right? It’s in there. Do you also believe what the Bible has to say about stoning people to death for petty crimes?
Yes, I find it very difficult to believe the Bible as literal truth, when so much of its content has been strongly contradicted by the best evidence available.
The earth is more than 6,000 years old. The sun does not revolve around the Earth. There is no such thing as the “firmament”. These are biblical ideas that were last taken seriously in the Dark Ages. Time for you to get an update, Danielle.
By the way, models of biological evolution don’t claim that human beings are descended from apes. The claim is that human beings and apes share a common ancestor. Saying that human beings are descended from apes is like saying that you are descended from your cousin.
What’s the firmament?
Also, Danielle is probably going to use the OT vs. NT argument.
Danielle, you should probably get some more (in-depth) instruction in evolution before you come on here bashing it.
Additionally, did you know that humans are taller now than they were 500 years ago? Do you think that’s a coincidence? Do you think it’s a coincidence that we have the same nucleic acids as every other known organism?
And which version of Christ and his Bible would you like us to research?
“I’d really appreciate you telling me why humans aren’t still developing.”
You are correct that there hasn’t been a significant change in 30-100 thousand years. But would you really “appreciate” somebody telling you why? Honestly? Or would you simply ignore the evidence and find solace in the undefined evidence that you presume must exist because of your certainty of your beief set?
Okay, here’s a few observations.
1. Strictly speaking, evolution means changes in the gene frequencies of a population. That is still happening. So, evolution, per se, has not stopped.
2. Honk if you understand Punctuated Equilibrium…
…nuthin…?
Okay, PQ, as explicated by S. J. Gould contends that contrary to what Darwin thought (and many today-including Dawkind) think, evolution is not the slow gradual accumulation of changes. Rather it is mostly plateau periods (equilibrium) “punctuated” by rapid periods of speciation–meaning rapid changes and brnches into multiple species. PQ isexactly the reason science predicts we should have difficulty finding “missing links.” Yes, many scientists believe science predicts difficulty finding missing links. So it is not unreasonable to observe little or no change for a period of 100K years. It is exactly as science would predict.
3. Especially when these rapid periods of speciation are typically tiggered by some causal factor. And rapid changes, cultural, technological, medical have eliminated most of the forces that would act force a period of equilibrium.
4. Cultural evolution continues unabated. It’s silly to say “evolution” isn’t happening. The world is a different place than it was when you were born.
“Did you know that if earth was even a mile closer or further away from the sun, life on earth couldn’t be sustained?”
Whoever told you this either did not know what they were talking about, or were lying. Just look at the variation in our orbit. It is not a perfect circle.
“I suppose you believe we all form from apes.”
You couldn’t much wronger. We are apes. There are 5 species of great apes, and you, my young friend, belong to one of them.
“I’d really appreciate you telling me…”
You really appreciate it? You are more than welcome.