 | Mohammed Comic Strip: A Call for Apology, and Apology Ensues |
Note of April 15, 2008: I have voluntarily removed the image of this Mohammed Comic — not because of threats, but because of the recent lack of them. As of late, there have not been riots regarding Mohammed Comics or death threats directed at me or any other public creator of Mohammed Comics. As a gesture in recognition of this return to some state of non-violence on the issue, I am taking my drawn image of Mohammed down. After all, the point of the comic was not to anger Muslims, but to pointedly engage in free speech at a time when free speech on the subject of Islam was threatened. Should the threat arise again, you may expect to see my Mohammed Comics appear again as well.
Yesterday, a self-professed Muslim from the Netherlands posted the following message in response to a roughly-drawn comic strip displaying Mohammed talking about recent death threats against people who draw pictures of Mohammed. Yes, it’s very meta, I know. But still, we got this response from the aforementioned Dutch Muslim:
“I think that the one who published this cartoon, even has nothing to do with humanity or what others fell about their relegion and their prophet. Or, he don’t care about the biggest personnality in history. In all cases he did something bad and he know this because he knew who he can feel if some one drawn a cartoon of Him in a bad way. Anyway, all i can is that i hope this person apologise to himself because he dosn’t know what he did to himself and i don’t think he will do it ,moreover a small artical saying that he was wrong to do this will be enough.
For Your Knowledge I’m a muslim and I will not do it even with your favorite football player let alone someone who is your example.
Thank You.
From a MUSLIM”
An apology? An admission of wrong-doing? Does he read this blog? Well, gosh and wool socks, we all should grow a bit, shouldn’t we? Maybe it is time that I offer a heartfelt apology and sincerely admit that I was wrong. So here goes.
I offer my heartfelt apology to those who expect me to refrain from embracing in their fictions. I’m afraid I will continue to bother you by refusing to pretend that these fictions are real. Look, it’s one thing for a community of people to believe that they shouldn’t make pictures of some historical figure they choose to worship. Y’all want to do that, go ahead: it’s your right. It’s another thing for members of that community to threaten other people with death unless they abide by a religion’s parochial rules. That’s crossing the line from oddly fascinating but certainly tolerable to really frickin’ annoying.
I was wrong, really I was, to refrain from making another poorly-drawn comic strip with Mohammed in it. As long as there continue to be people who feel it is OK to issue death threats against people (who aren’t even, let’s remember, Muslims) just for drawing pictures of some dead guy named Mohammed, it is imperative not only that pictures of Mohammed continue to be drawn, but that more pictures of Mohammed be drawn whenever attempts to enforce silence occur. Even relatively mild-mannered reproaches like that from the Dutch Muslim above need to be answered with a demonstration of continued free expression. Opponents of liberty need to learn that their attempts to control others will only backfire.
I’m really sorry that you haven’t managed to scare me and other freethinking people into putting away the pen, but gosh, that just isn’t going to happen. It must be awfully frustrating for you, and I sincerely wish to express my sadness that any actions I take might be associated with emotional pain on your part. Getting you and other intolerant fundamentalists pissed off is not my primary objective. Indeed, my goal in putting out images of Mohammed is to help you learn that your anger is not a license to kill, or to mute others. It is my hope that one day you’ll realize that your anger is pointless, and you’ll stop brandishing it like a weapon. Until then, you need to own your sense of offense and your emotional distress: you’re the one who has decided to feel the way you feel about what are objectively a few scribbles on a scrap of paper. If you want to feel better about all this, you have the power to make that happen by controlling your emotions, getting a grip, and beginning to be OK with the notion that not everybody must live by your standards. Go on, take a deep breath and give it a shot. You might like it.
I will begin to make amends for my unfortunate lack of comic production with the new comic you see to your right. The remediation of any other associated difficulties is really up to you.
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I still say the cartoon’s cute.
Plus, all the Muslims I know, although they may not approve of it, wouldn’t try to silence people over it.
As if YOU are the one who has to explain yourself when it comes to breaking “rules” that don’t make sense.
Comment by HareTrinity — 1/24/2006 @ 6:36 pm
I believe that Jim handled this in his usual equitable manner and showed no undue preference to anyone, addressing the situation as he would with any other hyper-religious maniac: He told them, in effect, “Go piss up a rope.” Bravo Jim!
Comment by Mike — 1/24/2006 @ 7:21 pm
Thanks, Hare and Mike.
It needs to be said: I also know a number of Muslims, and they also wouldn’t be delivering death threats or trying to censor me over this. The large majority of Muslims wouldn’t, I feel pretty secure in saying. But a small minority well of over a bilion is still a heck of a lot, and these heck of a lot of Muslims are intolerable in their active, threatening intolerance.
Comment by Jim — 1/24/2006 @ 7:30 pm
Throats sliced…….Muslim street ok and silent.
Kidnapped and killed……Muslim street ok and silent.
Suicide, murder and mayhem……Muslim street ok and silent.
Cartoon of M…………….Muslims loose there minds.
Who is crazy.
Comment by nassauplayer — 2/2/2006 @ 5:00 pm
Read about the religion before you talk. You obviously don’t know WHY the Muslim population objects to it. It’s forbidden in Muslim Religion to make drawings/sculptures etc. of any of the Muslim holy leaders, because they only carried the word of God. They weren’t to be idolized. God was.
Comment by Ren — 2/2/2006 @ 11:26 pm
It’s seems rather ironic that SOME (and I stress the word SOME) muslims threaten to bomb Denmark and kill Danes
because the profet Mohammed is depicted with a bomb in his turban?!
Religious logic is simply beyond me??
Comment by Morten T (danish) — 2/2/2006 @ 11:37 pm
In Muslim/Arab countries everyone (including foreigners visiting) are expected by law to follow the Muslim religious rules. eg. refrain from eating/drinking/smoking in public during the month of ramadan. Citizens of these countries are allowed to follow their religious beliefs and practices in Western countries while in a Muslim country like Saudi others are not. They now want to take away the rights and freedom of speech and expression of people in democratic countries. In brief they want to bring the whole world under their control by threatening and killing. Leaders of the civilised world have to plan unified action to stop this uncivilised group take over control of the world. It’s suprising to see that these people are so concerned about their brethren in Iraq, but are not about millions of their brethren starving and suffering in other parts of the world. Why cant they go out and help them, why cant they care for their African brethren who are suffering? They are leaving it to the civilsed west to sort that out. They specilise in violence and hatred and not charity and caring for others.
Comment by pete — 2/3/2006 @ 7:05 am
Ren,
1. I make exactly that point here.
2. I’m not Muslim, and therefore not bound by Muslim laws. The Danish paper was not a Muslim newspaper. Or are you bizarrely suggesting that everybody should be bound by Muslim law? Funny, ‘cos that’s exactly what the Muslim extremists’ protests are saying. That we ALL should follow the codes of Islam. Sorry, but I don’t play that game.
Comment by Jim — 2/3/2006 @ 9:07 am
fuk u racist modafoka ur ded u lil dik ed
Comment by Anonymous — 2/3/2006 @ 12:58 pm
No, no, anonymous, you’ve got it wrong. Islam is defined by a way, an orientation, not a race (either biologically or ethnically defined).
So, repeat with me:
not fuk u racist modfoka ur ded u lil dik ed
but rather fuk u religionist modafoka ur ded u lil dik ed
In addition:
1) I am not, currently, dead. The correct spelling is ul b ded, not ur ded.
2) My mother currently lives in another state.
I appreciate your attention to these details. It’s the little things that make posing as the vangard of righteous jihad come off well, wouldn’t you agree?
Comment by Jim — 2/3/2006 @ 2:13 pm
Uhh, Ren? No one’s idolizing Mohammed in the cartoons. Islam is safe from idolatry. Does that mean you can all take a chill pill and settle back down now, or are our lives still in jeopardy?
Comment by An American Mick — 2/3/2006 @ 3:43 pm
Why put our lives in jeopardy at all… It’s just these muslim extreamist, all they know is
to kill, kill, kill. They dont listen to reason there’s no such thing as freedom of speech
with these muslims. They dont know any better! They are neanderthals or barbarians if you will.
I honestly hope things do escalate so that yet again America, Great Britain, Australia all the
countries with logic, democracy, freedom of speech & not just a place where U need an AK-47 to
walk around the streets. Please continue what your doing you muslims.
You’ll get what’s coming for you’s one way or another.
Comment by Aussie — 2/6/2006 @ 2:17 am
A similar problem occured in Sweden not too long ago. That case however was taken to court, it was said that the comical strip the trail was regarding was encouraging racial hatred.
(the comic strip was making fun of immigrants in Sweden, the way they talk and how they commit murders and crimes and hide behind their religious beliefs)
One editor of a Comic book called “Ernie” wrote this:
“By making fun of each other over ethnic and other limits it will be easier for the public to accept the differences we today get annoyed with. And why shouldn’t we? Should Swedish comedy and satire be form of culture that is only created for the heterosexual, christian Swede? Talk about excluding people. Let them move here, feel sorry for them, but God forbid - don’t make fun of them. …
Instead we should laugh AT them, and WITH them. Only them do we create the possibility to change our and societies view and THEY become US.”
This is just a little insight in what he wrote, however, I think it hits the nail on the head.
Don’t you?
Comment by Mikela — 2/6/2006 @ 6:35 am
Mikela, I agree. So-called “hate speech” is yet another attempt to control speech. “Hate crimes” are an attempt to control or legislate thoughts. I never understood how it’s different for a homophobe to kill a homosexual than it is for a robber to kill for money, except for what each murderer was thinking or feeling at the time. The murder is the same crime, but some people think we should also prosecute the thoughts behind them.
“Hate speech” doesn’t have to be socially accepted. But it also should never, never, never be outlawed. Because the next logical step is for someone (who?) to start defining what is and what is not “hate speech”, in accordance with their own sensibilities.
And yes, there most definitely should always be a vast difference between “legal” and “socially acceptable”.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/6/2006 @ 8:24 am
Wtf is going on with this world..Why the hell are you people making fun of muslim beliefs ..i am sure if muslims made fun of jesus or any other holy man..People would go crazy and start fighting with muslim countries..Why dont you respect the muslim beliefs and not draw cartoons about it..Denmark and france and any other country that supports this could go to hell.
Comment by Anonymous — 2/7/2006 @ 5:46 pm
I wouldn’t fight with anyone who mocked my beliefs. My beliefs tell me they have a right to mock, and my beliefs are strong enough to withstand any mocking you can throw at them.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/7/2006 @ 7:35 pm
Interesting, no one who believes in Yahweh has attacked or burned buildings in the name of Yahweh. Glad to see that some realize that anything is used as an excuse to burn, loot, and condemn “infidels”. Very good points were made that Islamic countries inforce their laws of their soil, yet do not respect freedoms that other countries give theit residents. Why then do religious Moslems immigrate to democratic nations???? Could it be that they get no monetary help, housing, health care,and rights within their own Islamic counties, not even being allowed to have citizenship????? A truly “always the victim” attitude. Wake up and help the world not burn it!!!!!!!
Comment by Patty married to Muslim — 2/8/2006 @ 12:43 pm
nuke em
Comment by chad — 2/9/2006 @ 12:14 am
Chad, Islam is a religion of peace. Please note:
“Know that every Muslim is a Muslim’s brother, and that the Muslims are brethren; fighting between them should be avoided, and the blood shed in pagan times should not be avenged. MUSLIMS SHOULD FIGHT ALL MEN UNTIL THEY SAY, ‘THERE IS NO god BUT God’”. (emphasis mine)
— Muhammad, in Mecca, 632 A.D.
“Oh men, if you worship Muhammad, Muhammad is dead; if you worship God, God is alive.”
— Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s successor, upon Muhammad’s death, 632 A.D.
Caliph #2, ‘Umar, was assassinated - by a Moslem - in 644 A.D.
Caliph #3, ‘Uthman ibn ‘Affan was murdered - by a Moslem - in 656 A.D.
The FIRST Islamic civil war commenced, 656 A.D, 24 years after Muhammad’s death.
Caliph #4, ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib (656 - 661), Muhammad’s cousin, married Muhammad’s daughter, Fatima, his niece. He was assassinated - by a Moslem - in 661 A.D.
The Caliphate was taken over by the Umayyad family after their victory in the first civil war, defeating the elected successors to Muhammad.
After three Umayyad family Caliphs, another civil war ensued, and the caliphate changed hands again, to a family hostile to the Umayyads.
And so it went, on and on, until today…
However, mind you, we should ALL recognize that Christianity has its own cruel and bloody past. No organized religion ever cornered the market on barbarism and intolerance.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/9/2006 @ 12:01 pm
hey mr. anonymous people do make fun of Jesus, but you don’t see Christians killing the ones who did it. Instead we pray for them!!!
Comment by Anonymous 2 — 2/9/2006 @ 10:21 pm
Pete, you’re my new best friend. You’ve spoken my mind!
Comment by Fay — 2/10/2006 @ 12:55 am
Anonymous 2, you’re right too!
Comment by Fay — 2/10/2006 @ 12:56 am
ALLAH has bestowed the ability to every human being to reason and
understand.One thing which every human being should understand and
is expected to understand is to respect people who gave something to
the world!The respect and reverence which should be asociated with
the personality of the Prophet(May Allahas countless blessings be upon
Him)is something which only a true Muslim would understand but gener
ally any civilized person would refrain from saying anything offensive
about someone who is dear to someone!Publishing cartoons of a re
verent personality and allowing it be seen by the world is a sign of the
most callous and uncivilzed nation and if the Danish people and pres
s allowed it, they owe a very strong apology to the muslims of the world
and should not express surprize if the world comdemns them and decides to boycott\
.I being a Muslim cannot even think of offending
by making a cartoon of a baghwan and offending a Hindu.The Danish
press needs to put their hands together and ask for forgiveness from the Mus
muslims and God!
Tayyaba Haq.
Comment by Tayyaba Haq — 2/10/2006 @ 6:27 am
most of you have logical fallacy
you describe the religion with behaviour of people in it
in fact and i m sure that it must be considered with its criterias and whats allowed and whats not. and you must make your own decision by analyzing different religions
and when analyzing you should know that a religion must include the whole world , whole people, adn so on. dont make others to make up your life thereby do nopt let others control your life
Comment by n_beck — 2/10/2006 @ 8:27 am
Tayyaba Haq:
The Moslems need to forgive without being asked. Mohammed commanded it. Abu Bakr also commanded Moslems not to deify Mohammed. It seems to me Mohammed is being deified. If Moslems belief it’s wrong to insult things others hold dear, Moslems need to stop burning our flags, burning our leaders in effigy, and calling for our deaths and saying we’re “from the devil”. Then Moslems will have more credibility when they say we should not insult them, and that they believe in peace.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/10/2006 @ 9:14 am
If Mohammed is so great and all that, why is it that Muslim countries are in the grip of poverty
and a lot of Muslims living in those countries are seeking to move to more tolerant Western states? If you are fed up with the more liberal way’s of the countries of the West you could also go back to marrying your sister in Shitistan.
Comment by Kevin Phillips — 2/10/2006 @ 4:15 pm
n_beck,
A religion must NOT include the whole world, as you say. A religion must include only those people who choose to believe that religion, and NO ONE ELSE.
Also, we only associate terrorists and embassy-burners with Islam because terrorists kill innocent people IN THE NAME OF ISLAM,and because imams do not openly condemn terrorists, and because imams APPEAR to not only condone, but to INCITE terrorism and embassy-burning every Friday in the mosques. Why is it that Moslems go to mosque every Friday to “pray”, then come out enraged and burn flags and embassies? Why do they not come out of Mosques seeking peace, love, and mutual understanding?
Comment by An American Mick — 2/10/2006 @ 6:14 pm
i an american mick
i think you do not have any philisoohical background.
religion is everything to its believers, right?
it must show him how to act in every condition like islam does. since human acts is wide asd world it must include the whole world and everything.
“Why is it that Moslems go to mosque every Friday to “prayâ€, then come out enraged and burn flags and embassies? Why do they not come out of Mosques seeking peace, love, and mutual understanding? ”
and i concluded that you are not able to see some stripps. as for me i plan my weekly schedule and i do only 50percent of it. and some one from outside cannot say that my plan is just what i have done right?
as for islam ,what muslims do may not be fully suggested in islam.so by viewing the islam we cannot be sure enough what the islam is really sugegests.
Comment by n_beck — 2/11/2006 @ 11:06 am
n_beck,
I have no philosophical background? Is that the moslem way, to make such assumptions about people you have never met and know nothing about? Let me tell you, ia sadiqi, a’rif kathiran jiddan ‘an al’islam wa ‘an muhammad. I have a lot more philosophical background than you have demonstrated here, and you make an ass of yourself throwing such statements around.
The WORLD does not need Islam. I don’t need Islam. You do, and other Moslems do, and that’s perfectly all right with the rest of us. I think that’s a pretty good philosophy, and so do a lot of other people who are at least as freakin’ smart as you and have the right to make that choice for themselves.
Now, I asked a question to which I really wanted an honest answer from a Moslem. I really would like to know why the WHOLE WORLD sees Moslems coming out of the mosques every Friday stirred up and calling for the death of my nation, and the death of all Americans, French, Danish, and other human beings. If you have no real answer, then you don’t need to respond with some other gibberish that has nothing to do with the question.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/11/2006 @ 12:30 pm
N beck,
You are right, most non Moslems don’t have a real understanding of Islam. We can only judge by what we read and what we see on the news. Why don’t the Moslems give us a Good example of what it means to be Moslem. I agree that the cartoons where disrespectful, but that is most of the worlds impression of Islam due to your own actions. The reasons why I don’t feel that we owe Moslems an apology is due to the way they choose to handle their outrage. Burning embassies and killing people. Those kinds of actions will only breed contempt. Those kinds of actions are NEVER going to show us that you are a civilized nation and should be respected. Perhaps if Islam could have demonstrated its outrage in some other way, without all the violence maybe then the rest of the world would have had a sympathetic ear. Maybe then we would have more respect for Islam.
Comment by Micket — 2/11/2006 @ 3:28 pm
Micket (my girlfriend, all):
I’d only add that many people do NOT see the cartoons as disrespectful, only expressing a common and growing western view of Islam in light of constant kidnappings, murders, and threats in the name of Islam. I’d also say that many people don’t believe that anyone should ever apologize for expressing their own views in their own country, and in accordance with their own laws. If someone says what they mean, and it offends someone else, that person may choose to apologize for having offended someone, but they should not apologize for having expressed their point of view.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/11/2006 @ 3:46 pm
An American Mick writes:
“However, mind you, we should ALL recognize that Christianity has its own cruel and bloody past. No organized religion ever cornered the market on barbarism and intolerance.”
Mick, you are SO DELUDED. You sound like a christian. christianity makes every other religion seem beatific. It has indeed monopolized the world’s evil and continues to do so through the continual murder of abortion doctors, censoring free speech as in the Piss Christ exhibit, and rampant pedophilia among its priests, bishops, and popes. Muslims and those of the Jewish faith have no power and therefore cannot be blamed for any perceived wrongs. ANYONE who thinks otherwise is deluded, anti-Semitic, and Islamophobic.
Comment by CHRISTIANSSUCK — 2/13/2006 @ 10:39 pm
Christianssuck:
I’m deluded? Wow, how incisive of you. Now, saying I sound like a christian really pisses me off.
Moslems can’t be blamed for promoting, condoning, and encouraging terrorism and public beheadings of innocent people, because they ‘have no power’? Are you for real? Jesus christ, you’re the one who’s deluded. Who danced in the streets on 9/12/01? Peaceful moslems, or people who celebrate the mass murder of innocent civilians?
So, by your logic, anyone who feels they have no power can be absolved of anything they might do, including kidnapping, mass-murder, and terrorism. That’s one of the most ridiculous postulations I’ve heard yet.
Everyone can be blamed for their wrong-doings. And whether you like it or not, most of the world agrees.
For the record, I have already stated my opinion that christianity holds primary responsibility for the genocide of over 100 million Native Americans, countless mass-murders across Europe and the Mid-East during the crusades, and a lot of other well-documented brutality. What the hell did you not understand about my post? Sorry, but Islam is not free of blame for its continuing brutality across the world TODAY, and EVERY DAY, relentlessly.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/14/2006 @ 8:15 am
CHRISTIANSSUCK,
You hold Christianity responsible for a few radicals’ bombings of abortion clinics. Fair enough. Then, by your own standards, Islam is directly responsible for the Islamist terrorists who have kidnapped innocents, brutally cut off their heads for video cameras, have committed mass-murder, and are now threatening to kill an innocent woman who was trying to show the world the Moslems’ side of the Iraqi conflict.
You know, Mr. Christianssuck, I had a very close friend who was in the World Trade Center on 9/11/01. I watched from my car on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway as your jihaddists murdered her in the name of Allah and your precious Mohammed. Then I watched as Moslems around the world danced in their streets celebrating her death. She was a 28 year old Irish girl, beautiful and smart, who never lifted a finger to hurt anyone and who agreed with me that Palestinians deserved a homeland. You tell me that because Moslems feel helpless, I can’t hold them accountable? I will not use here the words that come to mind for you.
The victim mentality is a debilitating affliction that diminishes all who embrace it. Islam is diminished more every day it refuses to strap on a backbone instead of a bomb-vest, stand up against senseless brutality and in favor of dialogue and understanding, and disavow any connection to the animals who persistently ravage the civilized world and the imams who promote and encourage them.
Far from being an Islamophobe, I have long supported a pro-Palestinian solution and the immediate, total withdrawal of American troops from the Middle East. You, on the other hand, have given me the impression that you share the same imbecilic and brutish mentality of the pigs who killed Bernadette.
Sorry, Jim. A little more abrasive than I like to be.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/14/2006 @ 9:01 am
American Mick
do you really what you really need
at the everybody in the world doing sth that ‘t would lead them happiness
and i msure you did sth and you deserved but you see that there is any happiness.
because you need more riht?
and i see that
you dont really have any any background as i see
Comment by n_beck — 2/14/2006 @ 11:45 am
n_beck,
Okay, I have no background. Right. You’re an expert.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/14/2006 @ 12:09 pm
American Mick says: “Jesus christ, you’re the one who’s deluded. Who danced in the streets on 9/12/01? Peaceful moslems, or people who celebrate the mass murder of innocent civilians?”
That was an act of war. People with no power feel they must react in some way to subvert the christians with power. The straight white male christians who built the nuclear bomb were dancing in the streets after the obscenity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki despite their power. That’s the real evil.
Your “pro-Palestinian solution” smacks of anti-Jewish sentiment. The Jewish people have no power–something you don’t understand.
“I have already stated my opinion that christianity holds primary responsibility for the genocide of over 100 million Native Americans, countless mass-murders across Europe and the Mid-East during the crusades, and a lot of other well-documented brutality.”
That’s a good first step in understanding the evil power of the christians–but it’s only a first step. Straight white male christian folk are responsible for far, far more, and the sooner you realize that the better.
Comment by CHRISTIANSSUCK — 2/14/2006 @ 6:58 pm
Christianssuck, I’m still waiting for you to explain your notion of power, cogently, in your own words. I asked you to do this on another thread and you ignored the request after tossing a few names out.
I get that you’ve absorbed the humanities po-mo talking points, but could you please get beyond them? Everything you’re saying is a regurgitation of stuff I heard in college fifteen years ago. Everyone else here ALSO heard it when they went to college if they’ve gone to an American college or university in the past twenty years. We’ve all heard it before. There’s a person inside your poses. I’d really like to hear what that person thinks.
Comment by Jim — 2/14/2006 @ 8:06 pm
Jimmy: Sorry–I saw some of AmeriMick’s cryptochristian rants and couldn’t resist. I’ll explain when I get a chance…
Comment by CHRISTIANSSUCK — 2/14/2006 @ 9:44 pm
Christianssuck, you are missing the point. All you have done is attacked Christianity. Why? How have you helped further this discussion in any way? True, as Mick has brought up, Christianity has a history of bloodshed. So in that case Muslims are allowed to murder at least as many people. No. Wait, the real reason is because they have no power, right? They only listen to Allah and kill those damned white male Christians who have all the power because they are the only ones who can think for themselves. Muslims in fact do have power. In Tayyaba Haq’s words: “ALLAH has bestowed the ability to every human being to reason and understandâ€. That’s power enough, but the fundamentalist Muslims are the ones who abuse their divine ability and power to reason and they decide that their life is best used ending others’.
And it is funny you should bring up the topic of censoring free speech. Christians are not allowed to do it, but when Muslims decide that cartoonists should not be allowed any free speech or in fact life, we should listen to them, right?
Are you justifying Muslim attacks, murdering, or ‘war’ just because Christians are supposedly worse? But the fact that Christianity has been around longer and has more converts has no reflection on the number of fanatics it has, of course. And a religion meaning ‘peace’ is all right to be founded on war. Yes, as stated before, Christianity has had its history of war but for God’s or Allah’s sake, its name does not mean ‘peace’ and it was not FOUNDED on war, because that’s a good start.
One last reminder, Christianssuck, please read the beginning of the discussion so that you can maybe have some understanding of what it is actually about.
Comment by Petro — 2/14/2006 @ 10:10 pm
to all of you:
fact no. 1:
people, who are attacking, killing or whatever in the name of what religious and super-natural supreme beeing ever, are idiots, who are incouraged by a religious leader, who is using religion for gaining his power. ergo: those things, which happens at the moment, have nothing to do with religion at all.
fact no. 2:
it is just ignorant to consider everyone who is lives the western lifestyle as innocent. as long as we are consuming the cheap and beloved goods from the second and third world countries, instead of boycotting them, we are far away from being innocent.
fact no. 3:
it would be so easy to apologies - just for the sake of stopping the riots. and why not, if some people considering themself as insulted? that dose not mean, that nobody would be ever allowed again to make use of his freedom of speech.
ergo:
all comments sound like the result of a very well working propaganda machinert set up by the western AND the eastern world.
cheers
Comment by a german — 2/15/2006 @ 5:32 am
i beg you pardon for any mistake which has basically to do with fast writing and the fact, that i am not a native speeker.
thanks.
Comment by a german — 2/15/2006 @ 5:56 am
CHRISTIANSSUCK,
You have some serious issues, the likes of which I have no credentials to diagnose or address.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/15/2006 @ 8:49 am
Petro, I think it’s only the STRAIGHT white male christians who can be killed indiscriminately. The gay ones have been excluded from membership in the evil empire.
Comment by An American Mick — 2/15/2006 @ 11:10 am
I apologize for missing that key point. In that case it looks like the homosexuals are finally getting a break. Yeah, they don’t get the cool club membership card, but they get to keep their lives, which is always a catchy incentive.
Comment by Petro — 2/15/2006 @ 6:59 pm
I think that these cartoons are really rude to *MY* reiligon!! and 2 the prophet that I and other BILLIONS of Muslim people look after …so by you continuing these cartoons this shows people how RAICSIST you are to other peoples bielievs and reiligon! Alsoif the other comics publish another racist comic then I bet that u will insult that reiligous group of people and u will also lose RESPECT from those people.i hope that this taught you something!
Comment by WUT IS IT 2 U !! — 2/20/2006 @ 10:49 pm
In the west we make cartoons of Jesus and Moses and everyone who is important. The pastor of my church especially loves the movie “Life of Brian” and has watched it many times. His favorite part of the movie is when Jesus is on the cross and starts to sing a song about looking at the sunny side of life.
Mohammed is not God, and God is not a piece of paper.
“Race” means “color”. Is Mohammed a black religion?
My friend at church said to me, “If people don’t understand their customs, they shouldn’t just start killing them. They should, you know, reach out to them.” Moslems do not want to understand other people, but Moslems want to kill people who do not understand them. Can you explain this?
Comment by Layla — 2/21/2006 @ 12:53 pm
Its a shame and in this day in age, and in a country the world used to look up to, to have so poor judgement and low understanding of this crisis. First of all I dont blame you, americans, for your apparent misunderstanding of these events; Fox and CNN take good initiative to demonize non-american related tragedies, in this case muslims and that cartoon. You take good pride in promoting free speech and God do you defend it by approving the publication of the cartoon! The problem is that ‘westerners’ are culturaly trained to be insensitive to muslims, thus creating a clash of civilization. I don’t believe any major european or american paper publishing antisemite comments after the 2ndWW. We just keep reproducing these pictures for no good reason; the only thing that it leads to is to more and more pissed-off people. Are we just that f*cking stupid. And why, tell me why, that in an era sensitive like this, should we abuse of rights and freedoms of press many others dont have ( like Iran, Pakistan, Saoudi Arabia and so on) and use it against the people that need emancipation. Don’t u find it strange that westerners try to persuay muslim countries to adopt our way of life, but yet we dont respect their heritage??
We give with one hand and slap’em with the other.
Bravo
I don’t want to live in that kind of world. Play your position and respect the other players.
Comment by PP from Canada — 2/23/2006 @ 6:59 pm
Well, I must say that if being Muslim makes me have grammer like that guy… count me out. I don’t understand why people that obviously aren’t smart enough to use correct sentence structure and make a statement coherent feel they need to stand up and bea spokesperson for their beliefs. I personally don’t feel that the Muslim religion is correct but everyone is entitled to their own oppion… But not at the expence of me reading it and feeling like a less inteligent person for doing so.
shane
Comment by shane — 3/6/2006 @ 11:07 pm
Layla Says:
February 21st, 2006 at 12:53 pm
“The pastor of my church especially loves the movie “Life of Brian†and has watched it many times. His favorite part of the movie is when Jesus is on the cross and starts to sing a song about looking at the sunny side of life.”
Hi Layla. I just want to point out some inaccuraces in your comments because they could be misleading to others. “Life of Brian” is not really a “cartoon” about Jesus. It is about a man who was born in Bethlehem at the same time as Jesus and who inadvertantly is considered a prophet/messiah, too, by some people. There are only two direct references to Jesus in this film (that I can recall) and both are respectful. When Jesus is shown giving the sermon on the mount, it’s not the sermon itself that is altered or made fun of but rather some goofy people in the back of the crowd who can’t really hear what he’s saying and therefore misunderstand him. Also, the crucifixion scene shows a bunch of alleged criminals, none of whom is supposed to be Jesus Christ. I don’t mean to be nitpicking or going off topic, but we are on the subect of what constitutes offensiveness to religious believers, so I just wanted to set the facts straight. Many Christians have always opposed this movie because they do think it IS about Jesus and makes fun of him. I recall reading that many people who protested never even actually watched it. Perhaps those who bothered to do so were still offended because the movie’s main message really is that one should think for oneself, ever a dangerous concept to certain factions of any population, religious or otherwise.
shane Says:
March 6th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
“Well, I must say that if being Muslim makes me have grammer like that guy… count me out. I don’t understand why people that obviously aren’t smart enough to use correct sentence structure and make a statement coherent feel they need to stand up and bea spokesperson for their beliefs. I personally don’t feel that the Muslim religion is correct but everyone is entitled to their own oppion… But not at the expence of me reading it and feeling like a less inteligent person for doing so.”
shane,
Please note that not everyone who posts here is a native speaker of the English language, nor may they necessarily have the benefit of being as educated as others, which does not necessarily mean they suffer from a lack of actual intelligence. And I’m sorry, but that really is a ridiculous comment, to talk about religion “making you have grammer like” that of someone else. You did misspell grammar, by the way, among other words, which I point out not to pick on you the way you picked on others but as a way of saying “he who lives in a glass house shouldn’t throw stones.” And how are any of these folks claiming to be THE spokesperson for their religion? They are expressing their opinion because this is an important issue to them and here is a place where they are free to do so. The crucial thing, when you feel there is injustice, is to not be silent. Maggie Kuhn said, “Speak your mind even if your voice shakes.” And presumably, in the case of written speech, even if your grammar/spelling/syntax are less than perfect, as well. One final thing, why should someone else’s imperfect grasp of English rules make you feel less intelligent yourself? Sounds like a blame game for your own shortcomings. “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” (Eleanor Roosevelt)
I also don’t believe the Muslim religion is “correct” (though I suspect you didn’t mean that the same way I’m using it now). Neither do I believe that any other religion is the “correct” one. It’s that kind of thinking, “I have the one-and-only answer and everyone else is entirely wrong and therefore evil”, that has caused and continues to cause so much human misery. All religions have positive aspects and all are supposed to be worshipping a divine source. The latter is supposed to be the key point–so what if your neighbor’s way of doing so is different from yours?
An American Mick–you stated so many of my own thoughts quite eloquently! I enjoyed reading your remarks.
Comment by progressive n' proud — 3/9/2006 @ 5:07 am
To Shane the linguist.
I am sorry for not having english as mother-tongue. I don’t believe it should in any way be a factor. If you believe so, maybe you to should reconsider your syntax as well my friend. As for an actual dialogue and exchange of thoughts, I believe you have yet to prove you can do so.
I don’t defend the muslim religion in this particular case, in fact I don’t defend religion at all. What I try to point out is that this debate is not even fought on the same grounds. Some previous comments suggested that freedom of speech was predominant in importance; Is a cartoon of a Allah with dynamite in his turban something we should defend? Should we be proud of freedom of speech when its not used to actually be the forth estate, but a sarcastic Western expression of a stereotype? I’ve traveled and lived in north Africa in the past. let me tell you that I never saw people sleeping in the streets, under bridges and commiting crimes like here in America. They have a type of respect for other people we don’t have here anymore. It’s cultural and within them. Of course they’ll be upset if we demonize their God! Especialy by defending it with ”freedom of speech” when we dont even have something constructive to express and exchange.
Comment by PP from Canada — 3/9/2006 @ 3:03 pm
Progressive,
My Moslem friends are telling me the problem with the cartoons is the very idea of using the Prophet as a caricature. This is the closest I can come to understanding why they are upset. There have been so many incoherent posters here, but you get the idea they want to express SOMETHING. The most common explanation they give is “how would you like it if..” which of course doesn’t mean anything to us because satire for us is a legitimate way to express political ideas. My point was that we do treat our own religious icons in this way.
Perhaps a better explanation to Moslems would be one I saw on a Moslem website. According to British law (and this was tested in the British courts recently), it is not illegal to hurt feelings. It is illegal to hurt people or property.
Comment by Layla — 3/9/2006 @ 8:31 pm
shane says:
I personally don’t feel that the Muslim religion is correct but everyone is entitled to their own oppion…
progressive n’ proud says:
I also don’t believe the Muslim religion is “correct†(though I suspect you didn’t mean that the same way I’m using it now). Neither do I believe that any other religion is the “correct†one. It’s that kind of thinking, “I have the one-and-only answer and everyone else is entirely wrong and therefore evilâ€, that has caused and continues to cause so much human misery. All religions have positive aspects and all are supposed to be worshipping a divine source. The latter is supposed to be the key point–so what if your neighbor’s way of doing so is different from yours…
Ok, so I will give you the fact that there are many people from many nations posting on this board; and that their knowledge of the english language may not be as good as yours or mine.
However, I strongly believe that Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Light. So that is why I can say that I do not think it is correct. Do I believe that it would be ok for me to take some one hostage or kill them if they did feel the same?? Absolutely NOT. Jesus was the most peacefull man that ever walked the planet. So for me doing something like that would be against all of his teachings. And anyways, didn’t I say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion? I know that I did, how could you not see that? As for all religions, I honestly can’t speak. I do understand where you are coming from, and I also know enough about the Muslim religion to know that it is a religion based on peace and understanding. But when I said that “I believe it is not correct.” That is exactly what I ment. But is it not my right as a human being to have that opinion? I do have the one and only answer, but I do not push my beliefs on others and I do not judge my fellow man for not having the same belief system as I. However if my faith is put in question I have no problem with telling someone exactly how I feel. Furthermore, it is unimaginable that someone could see from my previous statement that I think that people of a different religion could be evil! My best friend is Catholic. We have discussions all the time about who’s religions is correct and why. He knows and I have told him many times in our discussions that I do not believe that Catholocism is correct. However “evil” he is not. Where you came up with that one I will never know.
So you see…. even in Christianity there is conflict. It is all about actually reading the scriptures to find out what the man that wrote them said. I guarantee that if The Muslims that plan terror and hate functions had actually read their scriptures…. None of this would even be talked about. As far as I’m concerned, they bring all the jokes and hatred they recieve from others on themselves by being ignorant of their own religion.
shane
Comment by shane — 3/17/2006 @ 9:42 am
it is amzing no one in the conversation told about the nature of the normal form of the other animal human,, he is in the proud of he is some thing,,
the funny thing you have no idea what is happening with you, then where is the time to think about muhammed and jesus and buddah,, why you cant be a budha or jesus or muhammed why are you people crying behind this people, be secure your self and build your self , never waste time for others name,,
Comment by mick — 2/17/2007 @ 11:24 pm
[…] Nevertheless, this reactive movement is speaking for Islam, is being buoyed by large crowds, has resulted in broad boycott compliance, and has been promoted by the official actions of a number of governments. That makes the movement a serious threat, not only to the individuals who publish an image of Mohammed, but to free expression itself. The only non-violent defense against such a movement is the continued exercise of the variety of free expression being threatened, without apology. […]
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