Challenge: Prove Jesus Existed

February 28th, 2007 | Posted by Peregrin Wood in Religion

There’s been a great deal of discussion lately, triggered by the claims of James Cameron that the bones of Jesus have been discovered, about whether Jesus ever actually existed at all.

In the interest of furthering that discussion in a serious, fact-based manner, I issue the following challenge: Prove that Jesus existed.

By proof I mean this:

  1. Provide evidence that Jesus actually lived, and is not just a legendary character
  2. Prove Jesus really lived beyond a reasonable doubt. That means that a reason-based argument could not refute your proof, not just that most sensible people would agree with you.
  3. “Scripture” is not to be considered as evidence. After all, what the word “scripture” means is just something that somebody has written. Some people have written that Santa Claus really exists, and that doesn’t make it so.
  4. Faith and other forms of subjective experience are not proof.
  5. Failure to accept alternatives to the existence of Jesus is not proof. For example, saying “Well, I can’t imagine what else could have led people to write the Bible and found Christianity” is not finding proof. It’s only showing that you can’t imagine something.

One more reminder for the discussion: The topic is whether it can be proved that Jesus really existed. The topic is not whether it can be proved that Jesus did not exist. That’s a different question.

So, any takers?

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

205 Responses

  • It seems clear enough that ironclad “proof” that an historical person, Yeshua, who corresponds to the teacher and insurrectionist at the center of the New Testament texts, existed is not available to us. The best we can do is to try to determine levels of probability. Is it more likely than not, or less likely than not, that such a person existed? — and, how much more or, as the case may be, how much less?

    I do think that there are at least a couple of problems with Peregrin’s third guideline.

    The definition of “scripture” as “just something that somebody has written” is far too minimal and broad to be meaningful or useful. More helpful, I would think, to say that people regard as “scripture” those texts that they hold as revealing — or being capable of revealing — ultimate truths about the human condition. Seen in this light, it’s hard to imagine that anybody would regard as “scripture” a written claim about the historicity of Santa Claus. I can well imagine, however, that, for many people, the Gettysburg Address and the “I Have a Dream” speech function as scripture.

    Also: From the fact that a great many people regard and use “the bible” as a faith document, it does not necessarily follow that the biblical texts have no value as an historical source(s) — as potentially harboring “evidence.” These texts are multivalent, and — like any text that has been written by a human(s) living in a certain time and place, and subsequently has been made the object of research — they have proven themselves susceptible to being analyzed in ways that force them (the texts) to “hand over” historical truths about their authors, their audiences, their subject matters, and the historical atmospheres in which they were written — independent of, and despite, whatever religious agendas “the Church” and Christians (both as individuals and as groups) have sought to protect and advance with these texts.

    To say otherwise would appear to risk suggesting that the entire five-centuries-long project of the historical criticism of the biblical texts, going back as far as Spinoza, has been a fruitless enterprise — or perhaps even that every scholar who has engaged in this kind of criticism has been a charlatan or a spiritual axe grinder of one kind or another. That would be a very tall claim, indeed.

    One relatively recent book on “the historical Jesus” that I can recommend without reservation is 1st Century Radical: The Shadowy Origins of the Man Who Became Known as Jesus Christ (AuthorHouse), self-published in late 2008 by Michael Calum Jacques, an English independent scholar of ancient classical and Semitic languages.

    Michael and I met nearly 26 years ago, when he and I were students together at the University of St. Andrews, in Scotland. I don’t know if the University is as serious about teaching ancient languages today as it was then; but, at the time, one could — as an undergraduate — learn Koine Greek, Mishnaic Hebrew, Qumran Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, Akkadian, and Ugaritic. Michael — who had both a voracious appetite and a genuine gift for ancient languages — learned them all, and, I daresay, remains one of the most meticulous and accomplished ancient language scholars the University ever has produced.

    Michael went on to study at Oxford with Geza Vermes.

    The book — a little hard to find now, and, when one does track it down, it can be a little pricey — is utterly erudite but is written in a popular, engaging style.

    Michael strips away all the mythological, cosmological “accretions” — his word — that the Church has used to build up its Christ and instead is focused on the historical person of Jesus, who, he concludes, probably was a lot more like Osama bin Laden than most people would be comfortable dealing with.

    Highly recommended.

  • Nelson says:

    If you cannot prove Jesus existed, you cannot prove Plato lived either, but no one denies Plato, the reason Jesus is denied has nothing to do with proving his existence, it is because if he existed and was who he said we was (Son of God), then we have to answer to him one day. There is more secular documentation that Jesus did live than any other person in history. So secular historians have no horse in this race. Look into just the writing of the historian Josephus.

    Josephus on Jesus
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A page from a 1466 copy of Antiquities of the Jews
    The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st century Romano-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity.[1][2] Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD, includes two references to Jesus in Books 18 and 20 and a reference to John the Baptist in Book 18.[1][3]
    Modern scholarship has almost universally acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James” [4] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[5][1][2][6][7][8] Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist to also be authentic.[9][10][11]
    Scholars have differing opinions on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate, a passage usually called the Testimonium Flavianum.[12][1] The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation.[12][13][14][15][16] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear[17] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[16]
    The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as the Jewish War, written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.[18] A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament accounts.[9][19] Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, for a Christian interpolator would have made them correspond to the New Testament accounts, not differ from them.[9][20][19]

  • Listen, Nelson: Some people have questioned whether Plato really existed, and it’s nonsense to state that there is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than any other person in history. Are there photographs of Jesus? Sound and video recordings? Autographs of Jesus? A Jesus birth certificate or census records? Fingerprints of Jesus?

    You’re so desperate, you’ve descended into outlandish hyperbole.

    As for your Josephus – he wasn’t even supposed to have been born for YEARS after the legendary death of the supposed character Jesus. You are citing legendary scripture, not fact-based history, and you’re accepting it second hand through Wikipedia.

    Josephus merely passed on the legends he was told.

    Sorry Nelson, you fail the challenge.



Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>