It is a time of fear in the face of freedom, a time for the widening of previous roads and the opening of new paths, a time of an emptying country and swelling cities, yet a time when these paths are mined by knowing algorithms of the all-seeing eye. It is the time of the warrior's peace and the miser's charity, when the planting of a seed is an act of conscientious objection.
 | Ron Paul’s Supporters Cannot Admit Defeat |
The facts are clear. In the 2008 Texas Republican Party presidential straw poll, Ron Paul came in third among a collection of third tier candidates, behind Duncan Hunter and the limping campaign of Fred Thompson. It’s a terrible loss for Ron Paul in his own home state.
Yet, Ron Paul’s supporters cannot seem to admit defeat. They treat their candidate as if he is some kind of political prophet who cannot possibly be wrong.
So, instead of admitting that Ron Paul lacked the organizational skills to campaign successfully in the Texas straw poll, they’re blaming the system that they claim was rigged against him. One anonymous visitor to Irregular Times writes, “The bullies in charge fixed the rules to disqualify Ron Paul’s supporters. Blaming this on his being “disorganized†cannot be an honest error. It is a perverted lie.”
It’s interesting to hear Ron Paul supporters complain now about the Texas Republican Party being “The bullies in charge”. After all, it’s those same “bullies” who have helped Ron Paul get re-elected to Congress.
Also, Ron Paul chose to run for President as a Republican, not as an independent candidate. In doing so, he chose to compete according to the rules set by the Republican Party. Ron Paul knew the rules of the Texas straw poll before he went there to compete, but he wasn’t able to muster much support among qualified Republicans.
If he didn’t want to compete in the straw poll, with its rules about who could qualify to vote in the poll, he could have chosen not to attend, as did the major Republican presidential candidates. Ron Paul knew what he was getting into, and couldn’t convince enough qualifying Texas Republicans to give him their support according to the rules he agreed to.
That’s a failure in any standard playbook, but don’t expect Ron Paul supporters to accept the label of failure. They cast Ron Paul as an insider when it suits them, and as an outsider when it suits them. They’ll adjust the facts in whatever way is necessary in order to justify their continued belief that Ron Paul is a competitive and capable candidate for President of the United States.
Remember, it’s not so much a campaign as it is a cult.
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I want to hear a Ron Paul supporter explain how, if Ron Paul can only get 17 percent of REPUBLICAN support in his own home state, he has a chance in hell of winning the Presidential election.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 8:23 pm
Ron Paul managed to get 17% in a poll restricted to previous GOP delgates who are primarily elderly pro-Bush and pro-war. Only 1,300 out of 17,000 delegates even bothered to show up. This alone proves that he’s not a 1-2% candidate like the mainstream media has been saying for the last 4 months. Ron Paul supporters outnumbered all others inside the hall and outside, where no other candidate support was present. Ron Paul raised over $125,000 over the weekend, while the GOP raised only $97,000 at the Straw Poll.
Understand, it’s not so much a campaign as it is a movement.
Comment by Scott W. — 9/3/2007 @ 8:43 pm
A movement for what?
A movement against reproductive choice.
A movement against separation of church and state.
A movement against Social Security.
A movement in favor of weird conspiracy theories about a mythical North American Union.
No thanks for that movement, Scott.
And still, I’m looking for any Ron Paul supporter to show me how, if Ron Paul can only get 17 percent of support in his own political party in his own home state, he has a chance in hell of winning the Presidential election.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 8:49 pm
Highlighting a 17% support and 3rd place in Texas can hardly be described as a defeat for Ron Paul. If anything it was a defeat for what the media likes to call the “top tier” candidates. What you need to realise is that Texas was just one of 11 straw polls that local GOP’s have organised since Iowa. And Ron Paul has WON six out of 11 and is leading when all these 11 polls including Texas are added together!
See: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/1766
http://ok4ronpaul.ashlux.com/wiki/index.php?title=2008_Presidential_GOP_straw_poll_results
Comment by Brian Horsfield — 9/3/2007 @ 9:03 pm
Brian, the top tier candidates didn’t bother to show up!
Ron Paul got only 17 percent, among his own political party, in his home state, when the top tier candidates did not show up!
Please, please, please, will some Ron Paul supporter come up with a more plausible reason for me to believe that, in these circumstances, any reasonable nonbeliever in the “movement” of Ron Paul would conclude that Ron Paul has anything more than a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the Presidential election in 2008?
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 9:13 pm
Third place is pretty good for Ron Paul as his support is still growing. He beat Rudy, Mitt and John soundly and almost Fred. Don’t be fooled by this argument that other candidates didn’t show up. They were still on the ballot. The party activist are sick and tired of them. They don’t show up so they can use it as an excuse for the poor showing. Your telling me a top tier candidate can’t get more than 80 people out of 10000 activists to show up and vote for them? These 10000 people are the most motivated Republicans and they could care less for the top tier.
Comment by Sean — 9/3/2007 @ 9:32 pm
Junga,
Scott answered your question.
“Ron Paul managed to get 17% in a poll restricted to previous GOP delgates who are primarily elderly pro-Bush and pro-war. Only 1,300 out of 17,000 delegates even bothered to show up. This alone proves that he’s not a 1-2% candidate like the mainstream media has been saying for the last 4 months. Ron Paul supporters outnumbered all others inside the hall and outside, where no other candidate support was present. Ron Paul raised over $125,000 over the weekend, while the GOP raised only $97,000 at the Straw Poll.”
That point seems pretty logical to me. Anyways, to further this discussion, (as you alluded to above) Ron Paul appeals more to independents, libertarians, and small government conservatives (that used to be Republican). A lot of those people were present at the straw poll but were not allowed to vote (due to the restrictions).
Look, I don’t think he’ll win the primary either. However, I do think he’s got enough support (conservative, libertarian, independent, and anti-war liberal) that he could pull a Jesse Ventura (IE - win) or a Ross Perot (IE - throw the elex to the Dems) in a general election as an Independent. This may be his strategy… Use the “Republican” for early airtime cause Lord knows 3rd parties get zero coverage. Then, with enough money in the bank and a huge volunteer base, buck the system, and screw the party. Brilliant move, IMO.
That’s how you beat the system when you aren’t loaded like Bloomberg or Perot.
Comment by Dave — 9/3/2007 @ 9:35 pm
Sean, the top tier candidates not only didn’t show up, they said they weren’t going to participate at all. They snubbed the Texas Republicans, and Ron Paul didn’t, and still Ron Paul could only muster 17 percent.
That’s a pathetic showing.
Also, the Texas Republicans wanted 10 to 20 thousand delegates, but only got 13 hundred. So, this is 17 percent of ten percent, with the top tier not showing up, on Ron Paul’s home turf!
You call this growing? At this rate, Ron Paul will grow into a genuine contender by the year 2108.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 9:36 pm
No, Dave, Scott didn’t answer the question. He didn’t offer any argument to plausibly explain how 17 percent of the table scraps of Ron Paul’s home state in his own political party can be translated into a platform for winning the Electoral College majority in the national level.
Not one single shred of connection, Dave.
Not a one to two percent candidate? He got 17 percent of 10 percent, without any of the strong contenders even in the game, within his own Texas GOP. By my count, that puts him BELOW the single digits in the national election.
So, Dave, you don’t think he’ll win the Republican primary. That’s at least a half honest answer. You think he can beat Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton? Ron Paul?!?
Ron Paul doesn’t have a chance in hell of becoming President, and there’s damn good reason why.
Ron Paul is disorganized. He supports paranoid conspiracy theories. He manages to alienate both Republicans and Democrats.
If he runs an independent political campaign after losing as a Republican, he may pull the Libertarian vote away from the Republicans, but he won’t pull many votes away from the Democrats.
Ron Paul will not be a player, because he can’t translate his tiny lunatic fringe following into a win, and he won’t throw the election to the Democrats because the election will go to the Democrats with or without him.
Ron Paul is not brilliant. He’s a paranoid nut who happens to have enough paranoid nut supporters to get some attention for a while.
By the way, the comparison to Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot is not a great way to bring credibility to your candidate.
All of this irrational flopping around and bragging about table scraps by Ron Paul supporters just lends more credibility to the article’s central point, which is that Ron Paul supporters are incapable of admitting defeat.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 9:45 pm
Why didn’t you mention the polls he’s won outright. Such as the NHTPC Straw Poll? Why didn’t you mention that he’s top five in 19 out of 20 polls? He scares you doesn’t he?
Freedom is popular. Ron Paul is a frontrunner.
Comment by Robert M. — 9/3/2007 @ 9:56 pm
Ron Paul is not for freedom.
He’s against the separation of church and state. He’s against reproductive freedom. He didn’t even bother to show up to vote against the Protect America Act, and he caucuses with the Republicans, giving their anti-freedom agenda his support.
He’s in the top five in 19 out of 20 polls?
Most of those straw polls, like this one, don’t have the top contenders participating.
Geez, I mean, John Cox was in the top five in the Texas straw poll, with something like one percent of the vote.
No, I’m not scared by Ron Paul. I’m amused by him.
I am scared by the astonishing lack of reason exhibited by Ron Paul’s supporters, however.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 10:01 pm
Every time you open your mouth about Ron Paul, you embarrass yourself with your absurd errors.
The state Republican party in Texas has never supported Paul for Congress. In previous elections, they have gone so far as to support a former Democrat trying to take away his seat.
You apparently don’t even realize that the reason the straw poll was so poorly attended was because eligibility rules for delegates were so restricted that only about 20000 people in the entire state were eligible. Only previous state and national party delegates were eligible to attend. If you polled the delegates to the Republican National Conventions for 2000 and 2004, I think you’d find pretty low support for Paul and pretty high support for the war, for torture, for the suspension of habeus corpus, and all the rest of it. Those numbers wouldn’t necessarily reflect the current state of the country though, now would they?
You can’t be bothered to research your posts even minimally.
By the way, the quote from Gravel in the right hand column comparing fear of Communism to fear of homosexuals insults homosexuals. It’s not exactly Gravel’s best moment and you might want to find a new quote. And if Paul has “no chance” of winning, what would you say about Gravel’s chances, or the chances of that smelly little dwarf Kucinich? What comes below “no”?
Comment by Fluffy — 9/3/2007 @ 10:15 pm
from a post to my meetup group:
3rd is pretty respectable considering how the poll was set up.
but more importantly the result gives false hope for yet another minor candidate to stay in the race. a Crowded Field is the greatest asset for our primary campaign.
here is a possible break down of a primary vote:
24%
22%
19%
14%
9%
6%
4%
2%
so say come primary time you got four ‘top-tier’ candidates (right now these are considered to be Thompson, Rudy, Mitt and McCain), two or three minor candidates (say Huckabee, Hunter, Tancredo), and then you got Ron Paul. it’s a great scenario if you ask me.
someone on LRC wrote an article about this a couple months ago. with Huckabee getting a bump in Iowa, and yesterday’s victory for Hunter, the scenario looks more and more realistic.
so always keep in mind that we don’t need 51% of the vote, but more like 24%.
less than 10% of American voters will participate in this primary season. less than half of those will vote in a republican primary.
so we are dealing with at most 5% of the potential voting population. and we can win with 1/4 of that.
ergo, 1.25% of the country voting for RP this winter and the nomination is ours!
sure it’s a little more complicated than that, but the point is we can win. the more candidates in the field the better.
congratulations Duncan Hunter! keep up the good work.
Comment by Kyle — 9/3/2007 @ 10:17 pm
By being on the ballot as a Republican in Texas, Ron Paul has gotten the institutional support of the Texas Republican Party. If he were running an organized presidential campaign, he would be working to get more institutional support. Ron Paul has failed, and has become a pariah within his own state’s Republican Party.
That’s a sign of failure in a political campaign, Fluffy, not success. Real leaders bring their political parties along with them. Ron Paul is not a real leader.
No, the reason the straw poll was so poorly attended is that Texas Republicans are ashamed of the crooked politicians they have sent to Washington D.C. Tom DeLay and George W. Bush are not sources of pride, even in Texas. The Texas Republicans admit that they expected 10 to 20 thousand QUALIFIED DELEGATES, and could only get about ten percent of that amount. You do your research, “Fluffy”.
You really don’t understand the comment by Gravel if you think it’s insulting. Why don’t you do some research on Gravel’s strong support from the HRC, and then do some research into Ron Paul’s homophobic record, hm?
No, I don’t think that Kucinich or Gravel have any chance of winning either.
But, how do you know Kucinich smells, Fluffy? Did you go up and smell him, or are you so low that you’ll use baseless ad hominem attacks?
Nice way of representing the high standards of Ron Paul supporters, Fluffy.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 10:22 pm
Kyle, surely you acknowledge that’s a bit far fetched. Besides, my question wasn’t just about the Republican nomination.
It was about the general election.
How in hell could Ron Paul ever dream of winning the national election against Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama?
With his weird ideas about the mythical North American Union, and his stands against government programs that mainstream Americans love, like Social Security, I don’t see how his platform could appeal to anything but a fringe.
That aside, you haven’t brought up any numbers to establish a solid base in the general election. You have Ron Paul entering the general election campaign with only a weak base of support even among Republicans.
Try to reason it out.
Comment by Junga — 9/3/2007 @ 10:27 pm
Oh I forgot … YOU’LL LUV THIS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DqY8iIxe2c
Comment by Chris Lawton — 9/3/2007 @ 11:05 pm
Tyranny at the Texas Straw Poll Ron Paul - Conspiracy? What Conspiracy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnWT4gCJSE
Ron Paul Gathers Huge Support at Texas Straw Poll [video1]
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http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=95455535&blogID=305851251
Comment by Chris Lawton — 9/3/2007 @ 11:06 pm
Wow. Links to lunacy.
Junga has some good points. 17 percent of a sliver of Republicans in Texas in a contest where the heavyweights didn’t even show up is not “Huge Support”.
The more Ron Paul activists speak, the more they look kooky in the same way that Ross Perot supporters were.
Comment by Patricia — 9/4/2007 @ 6:35 am
You’ll ADORE THIS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijjuAxC_wPk
Comment by Jim — 9/4/2007 @ 8:14 am
Even after Fluffy explains the real news to your “news unfit for print” pundits you continue to be in denial about the huge impact of Dr. Ron Pauls campaign. Yep, I see fear espoused here from this forum of a few. Ron Paul in 2008!
Comment by Karla — 9/4/2007 @ 10:07 am
What real news? What huge impact from Ron Paul?
What, has Ron Paul managed to eradicate Social Security yet?
Comment by J. Clifford — 9/4/2007 @ 10:19 am
Sorry to break the news to you but Ron Paul won the Maryland Straw Poll. He also won the FOX viewer poll after the New Hampshire Debate. Ron Paul’s support is growing. He is far from being “defeated”. How pompous can you get?
Comment by Kelly O — 9/6/2007 @ 5:35 pm
GO RON PAUL! GO RON PAUL! GOD BLESS RON PAUL!
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008!
Best Ron Paul video - (Reply: WRONG!…Best Presidential Candidacy Video EVER!!!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFfdB5OzlyQ
Comment by Chris Lawton — 9/7/2007 @ 11:01 pm
Those who think he lost, are idiots.
Those who thinks he deserved more JUST because he was from Texas, are idiots.
Those who think they didn’t bar some supporters, are idiots.
Those who think Ron Paul doesn’t have a shot in hell, are idiots.
Basically, there are a lot of idiots here.
Comment by Brent — 9/8/2007 @ 5:11 pm
So, basically, Brent has categorized everyone who does not believe in the CULT of Ron Paul as idiots.
What a surprise!
Just like a typical cult follower, Brent doesn’t give any reasons for what he says. He just gives a faith-based declaration of what he thinks is unquestionable truth.
There’s still NO realistic plan for Ron Paul to win the presidency.
Comment by Junga — 9/8/2007 @ 8:41 pm