How Is John McCain Not a Warmonger?!?
Republicans are as furious as a hive of honeybees that has been sprayed with a garden hose over what Ed Schultz said about John McCain at the beginning of this weekend. Ed Schultz said that John McCain is a “warmonger”.
John McCain demanded that Democrats immediately condemn the statement by Ed Schultz.
Why?
What does “warmonger” mean? It refers to someone who tries to sell war, just as a fish monger, like good old Molly Malone, is someone who tries to sell fish.
So, in what sense has John McCain not attempted to sell war to the American people?
John McCain pushed for a rushed war against Iraq. McCain even said that winning the war would be “easy”. Yes, John McCain really said that - on September 24, 2002. Why did he say that? He was trying to sell the idea of going to war to the American people.
More recently, John McCain has pushed for saber rattling against Iran, and when asked about what kind of message should be sent to the Iranian government, he sang “Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran”.
The kind of people who think that one country bombing another country is funny said that it was a joke. Others were not so amused.
John McCain has also commented that he is just fine with the idea of keeping American soldiers in Iraq for one hundred years, or even ten thousand years.
John McCain is campaigning on the promise to keep on waging war. How is that not selling the idea of war - warmongering?
John McCain works every day to sell Americans on the idea that keeping on with war is a good idea. Like it or not, that makes John McCain a warmonger.
It’s not Ed Schultz who should apologize. It’s John McCain who owes America an apology, for recklessly hawking war as if it will be “easy” or as casual as some kind of stupid joke.
I see you are following the Obama talking points. If you go back to the original speech, when McCain was talking about keeping soldiers in Iraq he qualified the statement by saying as long as they were not being killed. He was talking about military bases, like the one we just had to give up in Saudi Arabia after our allies couldn’t stand having non-Moslems making their soil filthy any more, although our soldiers were good enough to protect their interests in Kuwait. People in the middle east are comparing the situation to Europe after WWII where the military presence remained for 60 years.
I have no idea what the Barack Obama campaign’s talking points are. I haven’t been to their campaign web site in weeks.
Iroquois, how has John McCain NOT been selling people on the idea of continuing war?
How was John McCain NOT selling the idea of war back in 2002?
How is John McCain not a warmonger?
This is not 2002. I am so sick of the coulda shoulda woulda talking points and the empty speeches and trying to spin the other candidates’ positions beyond recognition to make themselves look good. Read the original speech or listen to the video. I ran across it the other day and it does not say what Obama’s speechwriters claim or what that sam-i-am rap video thing said. They are just trying to manipulate the public.
I repeat, McCain was talking about military BASES, like we have had in Europe with NATO for years.
No, in a way, it IS 2002. We are trapped in the war that John McCain thought should be “easy” and done quickly. He agreed with Dick Cheney that the war would be over and most American soldiers would be coming back home before the end of the year.
So yes, is IS 2002. We are trapped in John McCain’s 2002.
It’s about judgment, Iroquois. Maybe you can’t stand the idea that Barack Obama had the judgment necessary to oppose the rush to invade Iraq, while John McCain and Hillary Clinton lacked that judgment, but it’s true, and it’s damned relevant.
And no, the comparison John McCain has made is to Korea. Korea, where the country has remained divided, with nuclear weapons saber rattling, for two generations.
That’s John McCain’s version of victory - and he has said that he doesn’t think that Americans care if our soldiers are in Iraq for ten thousand years. He actually said that. Ten thousand years.
John McCain has been pushing for war against Iran, and so have his nutty co-warmongerers Rod Parsley and John Hagee, his ayatollah-advisors. McCain also keeps arguing against ending an American role in the fighting in Iraq.
Rush to war in 2002. More war in Iraq. Pushing for a new war in Iran. How is that NOT warmongering, Iroquois?
How low will your hatred for Barack Obama take you? To vote for John McCain?!?
You’re tired of people talking about the great mistake of 2002. I’m tired of seeing our country pay the consequences of that mistake.
“judgment”?
Whose playbook buzzword is that, Peregrin?
No, Obama did NOT oppose the war. He wasn’t in a position to vote on it. And yes, I have seen his speech. And subsequent speeches that said he didn’t know how he would have voted and subsequent, subsequent speeches that said he really would have voted against it and the previous speeches were only said because they were politically expedient. His speechwriters have the hindsight to SAY he really really opposed the war even if he said something else–as if repeating it enough times would make it true.
You see where this obamabot thinking leads. All I have to do is insist on accuracy and suddenly I have “hatred for Barack Obama”. “Ooohh!” says Peregrin. “Quit hating on my Tweety Bird!” Do you have Obama tattooed on your forehead yet?
Go back and look at that McCain video yourself and don’t depend on the hip-hop version. McCain was very clear he was talking about military bases.
Peregrin, you’re right. John McCain DID say he’d keep American troops in Iraq for 100 years (or more), we ARE still facing the consequences of the horrible decision to go to war in 2002, the consequences of that decision ARE huge, making the decisions of 2002 still HIGHLY relevant, John McCain HAS said he wants another Korea situation, and Barack Obama DID oppose the war. These things you say are TRUE.
Thank you, Peregrin, for sticking to what is TRUE and not deviating into frivolous and distracting discussions of how people who disagree with you are “bots.”
The way i look at it, flawed as it is, goes like this.
If people are happy with the way things have been going for the past almost 8 years - steadily losing jobs, their homes and retirement investments losing value, no affordable health care, secret government, few if any rights left without habeus corpus and privacy, the currency being constantly devalued, the debt at record-highs,energy costs at an all-time high, corporations via their lobbyists owning the government (writing the laws for Congress to pass without reading and huge investment to their campaigns), a stacked right-wing Supreme Court looking out for corporate and religious right interests, a national banking system which bails out predatory lenders but won’t help out its citizens, the constant resource grab of corporate interest groups being aided by the fascist president and a complicit Congress, a president who puts himself above the law (he was sworn to defend), and a looming environmental and economic meltdown with no leadership in sight, then by all means vote McCain!
Yes, I have seen your videos of Obama claiming he was opposed to the war back in 2002–videos he made in 2008. Talk about being captured by a campaign.
McCain said he would keep troops in Iraq as long as they were not getting killed. Look at the video again, Jim. He was talking about military bases, not war. We need to be talking about the issue of military bases. Maybe we need military bases in Iraq.
McCain did sing “bomb Iran”. We need to be discussing the issue of bombing Iran. Maybe we should be bombing Iran to wipe out their support for Moqtadr.
Obama wants to bomb Pakistan and Afghanistan instead. We need to be talking about the judgment involved in bombing Pakistan and Afghanistan. Maybe we should bomb them back to the stone age, if the Taliban hasn’t brought them there already, and wipe out bin Laden for once and for all, if he isn’t still on the CIA payroll.
Your problem is you are picking a candidate then working backwards from their talking points. Of course, that might be exactly what you have been paid to do. If you were really interested in advocating for a progressive agenda, you would be analyzing the issues and using that to leverage change in the candidates’ positions.
But what do I know. I’m just a Typical White Person.
Iroquois: “Maybe we should be bombing Iran…”
And she supports this position as coming from John McCain.
That proves my fundamental point right there.
Iroquois has bought the idea that John McCain is selling: More war.
John McCain is a warmonger.
You can argue about whether war is worth buying or not, but I don’t see how anyone can make an honest argument that John McCain is not trying to sell people on the idea of more war.
Notice how Iroquois suggests that there is a video somewhere of Barack Obama that suggests that he wasn’t really against the invasion of Iraq back in 2002, and yet she doesn’t actually say what speech that is?
Here’s the truth: Barack Obama was against the rush to invade Iraq back in Iraq, and he said so. Want to see evidence of the consistency of Barack Obama’s opposition to the Iraq War from the start? Want to see some actual old video footage of Barack Obama speaking very clearly on the subject?
http://irregulartimes.com/diaries/2008/02/videos-obama-documentation/
Hillary Clinton and John McCain were in favor of rushing to invade Iraq. They both voted in favor of starting the sloppy hurry-up war. McCain and Clinton had the same position: They were in favor of helping George W. Bush get America into Iraq.
Some say that doesn’t matter.
I’d like to hear those people explain how the billions of dollars America loses every week, and the American lives that are lost every week, in Iraq don’t matter.
Oh, I’m well aware that he NOW claims he was against the war. He sure didn’t vote against it, did he. And he declines to criticize Kerry and Edwards for their votes, saying he didn’t know how he would have voted because he didn’t have the same classified briefings they had:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407E2DF153DF935A15754C0A9629C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2
but he doesn’t have any problem criticizing Hillary? Sorry guys, I just see opportunism here. Parsing Obama is quite interesting. People tend to hear him say things that agree with their own opinions, but if you look at his exact words, he speaks very carefully, skillfully, and manages to stay on the fence as long as he can–at least when he is scripted.
As opposed to what we have now - an idiot who can’t even converse without screwing up (even with the teleprompter); but when he does finally get something out it’s usually (to be politically correct) obfuscation, misinformation, or biased information. If we could put up with that for eight years, Obama would be a welcome breath of fresh air as far as intellect, speech and policy (i hope) are concerned.
As far as why McCain sang that “Bomb Iran” thing with the Beach Boys tune, I really can’t say what was on his mind. It could have been just a comment on current events or running something up the flagpole to see who’d salute it. After all, Obama’s cousin, Dick Cheney was doing his little tour around the Middle East getting all those negative vibes from world leaders about a war on Iran.
If you want to call someone a warmonger try Edwards and Obama, who have said outright they want troops in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those are long country names though, and it would take some doing to find a cute jingle to rhyme them, so I guess that one doesn’t get the mindless soundbite.
Iroquois is the only person in this thread making sense.
Iroquois: Here is the actual speech (provides link), not the MTV version. It clearly states he is talking about bases, not-
Peregrin: (fingers in ears) Nanananananananananananaaaaa John McCain is a warmonger! Admit it! Admit it! He wants to fight a war for 100 years! Nananananananananananana…
Iroquois: Peregrin, I’ve provided the proof. Saying something over and over won’t make it true.
Peregrin: (fingers in ears) Nanananananananananananaaaaa John McCain is a warmonger! Admit it! Admit it! He wants to fight a war for 100 years! Nananananananananananana…
Ace,
Peregrin DID say that John McCain is a warmonger, and John McCain DOES meet the standard of warmongering. Look it up in your dictionary.
But on the 100 years, Peregrin said nothing of the sort that you characterize him as saying. He said something different. If you cannot understand the difference, then that says something about you, and if you actually believe there is no substantive difference between them, then that undercuts your substantive claim that McCain himself has made a distinction.
You are a careless reader. Read more carefully.
Peregrin said:
And in post #5 Peregrin says
Ace is correct about Peregrin not quoting the McCain 100 years thing correctly. I’m used to it though. Once Peregrin has written about a subject, he stops thinking about it.
If dis jon guy wud mak war on doggehs I wud vot fur him. I hayts dogges. De smel and des eet kittes.