“Homosexuality IS a sin. God says so in the Bible, repeatedly. Some of the relevant verses are even quoted in the FAQ. How, again, is this “radical”? It’s Christian doctrine”
~~~ Paliban Mom response

Christian doctrine is that ALL have fallen short of the glory of God. ALL are sinners.

Without hashing the finer points of context, lobster, dietary law, Hebrew word meaning, and the like, I confine my observation to this curiosity…..

homosexuality is a sin and Saddleback forbids membership to those who do this sin.

Why this one sin?
Why not forbid membership to ALL who sin, and any sin there is?

Who picks and chooses “acceptable sinners” for membership?

The radical in all of this discussion is NOT Rick Warren. The radical is Jesus Christ.

Jesus radically sought to save ALL sinners.
Christians have a propensity to marginalize whoever they choose to marginalize by making certain sins paramount…..a MOST unChristian thing to do, btw.

Sick people go to hospitals to get well.
Sinners go to Jesus to get forgiven.

If the homosexual is sinning per the Bible, and Jesus is the cure to sin, why would any pastor want sinners excluded from His influence at salvation?

Sometimes, I think homosexuals are closer to Jesus Christ than the pew warmers who attack sinners,….all the while being sinners too, but employing different sins.

Abortion is a sin. It is murder.
So why are not women who have had abortions forbidden membership?

Speaking of divorce, lying, theft, malice, prejudice, our Thanksgiving gluttony each year, lust, adultery, fornication up the yin yang by the entire country, pride, shunning, foul language like “God hates fags”, and millions more sins, how can anyone be a member at Saddleback, when the criteria of sin excludes you?

Truth?
Sin qualifies you to come to Christ.
It NEVER excludes.
He died for this very thing.
He did not come and get crucified for saints, he died for sinners. Sin puts them in hell. Jesus paid the bill and said “Walk in to heaven with me, I paid”.
Even the thief on the cross knew that.

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
~~~ Mohandas Ghandi

This is how outsiders and nonbelievers see Christians.
It behooves Christians to not let Christ see them this way, or his cry to you will be:
“Get away from me! I NEVER knew you”.

When they say “Lord! Lord! Let us in!”, he slams the door to heaven shut.

They call him Lord. Those are BELIEVERS being shut out of heaven. NOT unbelievers.

Those who shut anyone out of any Christian Church, yet cry out “Lord”, can hang on to their Saddleback One Card and forfeit the admission to heaven.

You are walking on perilous ground to pick and choose sins for punishment, and sins acceptable for church entry. I would not want to be Warren on judgement day if he truly believes he can determine church membership by allowing some sinners and excluding others due to sin of choice….homo, abort, stem cell, whatever.

I am a believer in Jesus Christ and I also believe we need to imitate Jesus better than we have,
by treating all children of God…..we are all made by the same God….as brothers and sisters.

Cut the family feud and forgive one another.

Heck, even President Bush denied the Bible recently! I’m surprised Jim wasn’t all over that one!

For your convenience: http://paliban.org/blog/blog1.php/2008/12/09/gw-bush-abandons-god-economic-collapse-e

All true Christians stand against removal of the Constitution and replacement of it with God’s Law, the Bible.

I suppose you’ll call all of the Christian Reconstruction movement “extremist” now, because they don’t agree with your secularist, anti-God worldview?

You say: “very large numbers of Americans – including many Christians – do NOT agree with you that the Bible is the word of God.”

Then they are not Christians. The only way to know God is through His Word. If you don’t believe the Bible, then you are no Christian. You’re making up your very own god to suit yourself.

You said: “Second, the idea that dinosaurs were on Earth at the same time as humans, and that humans had dominion over dinosaurs is not in the Bible. ”

Look up “behemoth” and “leviathan” and “dragon” in the Bible (KJV). Sorry, they’re there. And since all Creation happened within 6 days, humans had dominion over dinosaurs.

You wrote: “Neither is anything about stem cell research – or anything having to do with stem cells, or for that matter, any cells, or fertilization of egg by sperm. Neither is abortion. ”

Commandment not to murdering innocents IS in the Bible. You don’t get embryonic stem cells without murdering an unborn child.

“The Bible can be interpreted as saying that homosexuality is a sin,”

No, it says it directly. No need to “interpret”. It also says that the punishment is death by stoning.

“It would be extremist to try to force everyone in America not to eat lobster.”

Not really, not in a Christian nation. Did you know that 76% of Americans identify as Christian? Of course, only about 16% of those actually bother with the Bible (a growing number, research it for yourself).

“You’re actually arguing in favor of plesiosaurs not being extinct, Paliban. That pretty much proves the point right there.”

No, I’m arguing that you cannot know what is or is not in the oceans. I didn’t argue that plesiosaurs are or are not extinct, and neither did Warren. You put those words in his mouth and in mine. For shame!

“Rick Warren is no moderate. He’s an extremist ”

I never claimed Rick Warren was a moderate! He’s a Christian who (largely) follows the Bible. According to you, following the one book which defines one’s religion is “extremism”. I suppose you’d like to see all such “extremists” locked up, eh? Bibles burned as “hate speech”?

I’m glad YOU and the other thought police aren’t running the nation! It’s hard enough for Christians to practice their religion in peace, with people like you showing your “Liberal tolerance” — that is, agreeing and fully supporting any position, no matter how bizarre, as long as it completely agrees with your own.

You’re ranting at the wrong guy. I really don’t give a crap what Rick Warren’s Church believes in. I read about 4 or 5 that I don’t agree with from the get go.

First,I responded to your statement about the shellfish. You will not win an arguement with me concerning homosexuality using that quote. I know what it is talking about. You can not compare the two.

Second, I don’t spend all my time on this blog. Occasionally I will read a few articles. I’m sorry I missed where you listed all the freedoms you felt were under attack. But, freedom from inequality doen’t include behavior. You have all the same rights as I do. Religious tests for office..I’m certainly against that, but I hardly equate Rick Warren mentioning that he wouldn’d vote for a athiest as a religous test.

Thirdly, you made up the stuff about Jesus mocking the Old Testament, on the contrary, he said he came to fulfil the law. The big picture you refered to is I’m presumming where he said to “seek ye first the Kingdom of God,” or maybe “love thy neighbor as thyself”. Either way, he told us to follow his comandmants if we wanted to enter into his Kingdom. Galations is pretty specific about what kind of person can’t come in.I try my best not to fall into the categories, sometimes I still do. That’s where forgiveness comes in.

And a book before toilets. Wow, that’s bold. If the author is God, which I believe it is, why not try to understand it?

I suppose, Dave, that you don’t have anything to say, that you can’t refute what I’ve said.

It must be hard for you, trying to ignore the fact that Rick Warren, who preaches that he’s got the ultimate truth about everything at his Saddleback Church, is now trying to hide the crazy stuff he’s been telling his followers.

The cover’s off this coverup, Dave. If you were a member of that church, how would it make you feel to see your own preacher trying to hide his own statements just so that he could gain political power?