This weekend, down in the toasty desert land of Alamogordo, New Mexico, a group of a few hundred protesters stood out on the side of a road, protesting against the Obama White House while carrying loaded guns. Why did they bring their guns to the protest? The answers given by the protesters became rather circular.
Chris Dudley reporter for the New Mexico Independent asked one protester, “Why do you carry a gun?”
“Because it’s legal,” the protester explained.
“Just because it’s legal.”
“Yeah!”
Lots of things are legal, of course. Carrying a bagel, for example. Carrying a bagel is legal. So, why didn’t the protesters carry bagels?
“He wants to take our guns, our Second Amendment, away from us,” said another protester, referring to President Obama. That’s what makes it necessary for hundreds of people carrying guns to rally? There’s a little hang-up with that explanation: The Obama Administration hasn’t done anything to take anyone’s guns away. “Fast guns” are still available for easy sale across America.
Asked by the reporter if he had reached the point where he would use his gun in violence against the federal government, a protester replied, “Not yet, but they’re pushing us to our limit. That’s why we’re out here.” He called the show of guns at the Tea Party protest as, not a veiled threat, but “a very open threat”. The protester further explained that he would not discuss when the point of violent rebellion among Tea Party protesters against the government would begin: “I’m not saying when that is, because the element of surprise is the main thing in any military victory.”
Another protester, when asked if people ought to be frightened that the Tea Party group is carrying its guns in public protest, explained that the idea that guns are dangerous is a misperception: “So many people have the idea that just because a gun appears that automatically, someone is going to die.” Let that be a reminder to you: It’s not automatic that someone is going to die when people bring their guns out in public. Reassured yet?
“A gun is just a tool,” the protester explained. “It’s how it’s used that’s the issue.” So, how the gun is used – in armed insurrection against the democratically-elected government of the USA, for example – is what matters.
I agree that it matters that Tea Party protesters carrying guns in large groups are beginning to issue threats to start an armed insurrection against the federal government. People who are so obsessed with a single amendment to the Constitution that they ignore the core value of the Constitution – democratic government established through elections and legislation rather than through violent revolution – aren’t just a threat to passersby. They’re a threat to our nation as a whole.
You liberal ninnies! No one threatened ANYONE.
God you nattering nabobs of negativity need to shut the heck up.
You don’t seem to mind that the communists have ALREADY overthrown our legal form of government, the Constitutional Republic…
Democratically elected my butt… and breaking the law each and every day!
NH, the communists didn’t overthrow our government, corporations took over by means of lobbyists and corruption. Liberal, conservative – doesn’t make a difference (they fund both sides so whomever wins, that person is in their corporate pocket).
As to: ““A gun is just a tool,” the protester explained. “It’s how it’s used that’s the issue.” So, how the gun is used – in armed insurrection against the democratically-elected government of the USA, for example – is what matters.” it’s the teabaggers who turn out to be the tools.
Good point, Tom. If Communists have taken over the USA, how come there are still private companies and private property? How come these people still have their guns?
I love it when someone accuses me of being negative, and then tells me I “need to shut the heck up”. Tickles.
When someone at the protest announces that he is making “an open threat” with his gun, how can it be said that no one made a threat?
Other tools:
- Chainsaws
- Knives
- Sledge hammers
- Axes
To be fair, if you’re including “tools” which only serve to maim (or threaten, but all tools can do that), scalpuls, defibrillators, thumbscrews, hanging nooses, electric chairs, lethal injections and more can be added.
I’m such a freak for not wanting these waved in my face by strangers.
against the democratically-elected government of the USA, for example –
So, is a gun more powerful than a black panther with a billy club standing in front of a voting preceint?
Brenda, do you have a citation you can give us of any instance of a Black Panther standing outside a polling station in Alamogordo, New Mexico? I can’t find any such instance that would justify hundreds of people showing up on the streets with loaded guns.
Give me a break. Yes It happened and Eric Holder refused to prosecute them. Yes they could have brought other things, but they chose what they believe is threatened. If you had shown up you would have brought many things, but a brain isn’t among them.
Under the U.S. Constitution, protests and demonstrations against the U.S. Government are legal. Since the founding of the United States, demonstrators have had fistfights and deadly encounters with their opposition. Generally noncombatant protesters are not charged with violent crime. But that could change if Sen. McCain’s Senate bill S.3081 is passed: “The Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010.” The Definition for Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent is: (Anyone Subject to a Military Commission)
Under S.3081, an “individual” need only be “suspected” by government of “purposefully and materially supporting hostilities” against civilians or U.S. Government to be “detained in military custody” as an Unprivileged Enemy Belligerent. Any one Protesting separately or with others at a demonstration would run the risk of being detained and interrogated by government on the basis they are suspected of having supported hostile activities, whether or not violence took place. That may include any person or group that expressed disapproval against any branch or agency of the United States. Under S.3081 how could a detained protester prove he or she did not “purposely support hostilities against civilians or the United States?” S.3081 could be used by a corrupt Government to interrogate and or indefinitely detain their dissenters and political opposition.
When you consider history, McCain’s bill could have the potential of spawning domestic terrorism in the United States. Citizens in other countries to resist a perceived tyrannical government have gone underground. Consider how Americans might respond should U.S. Government use this bill to take away their loved ones, family members and friends on mere suspicion.
At least under the Patriot Act, law enforcement generally needed probable cause to detain a person indefinitely. Passage of S.3081 will permit government to use mere suspicion to curtail an individual’s Constitutional Protections against unlawful arrest, detention and interrogation without benefit of legal counsel and trial. According to S.3081 Government is not required to provide detained individuals Miranda Warnings or even an attorney.
The Teabaggers are nothing more than a group of terrorists who are angry about the fact that a black man is President of the United States. If their intentions were genuine, they would have been protesting Bush’s Economic Emergency Stabilization Act, which was signed into law on October 3, 2008.
Where was the Tea Party on that day-attending their local Klan meetings?
Anyone who is a member of one of these Tea Party terrorist groups needs to be arrested and deported.
… for threatening our constitutional way of life?
You just have to love these uninformed types who loudly proclaim that America has become “a socialist, fascist police state,” and that “armed insurrection is the only way for the people to ‘take back America’.”
If they had so much as a single clue, they’d know that “socialism” and “fascism” are extreme, polar opposites of the political scale, and that it’s absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for a government to be BOTH “socialist” AND “fascist.”
They like to blather on about “the people taking back America,” but they don’t seem to realise that this is precisely what the American people DID in November of 2008; they democratically elected a government which promised to undo Bush’ ultra-right-wing abolition of many of their Constitutional rights and freedoms. By ANY stretch of the imagination, that’s “Americans taking back their country,” the only way they can…with BALLOTS, not bullets!
What is wrong with these people…do they want to live in an American version of Northern Ireland? Idiots! Having witnessed violent sectarianism “up close and personal” (as a long-time resident of Ireland, I was literally right next door to the conflict in the North, and it wasn’t pretty!) I can assure these uninformed, inbred morons that doing what they so loudly advocate (internecine sectarian violence and armed struggle against the government and so-called “liberal socialist fascist Democrats”) will end VERY badly for everyone. It could well mean the end of democracy in the United States. “We’ll win at the ballot box, or we’ll go for the bullet box?” What kind of infantile hogwash is that?
If you take up arms, openly advocate taking up arms, or even just THREATEN to take up arms against your democratically elected government, you’re a traitor; it’s just that simple.
If you’re an elected member or an appointed official OF said government and you do any of the above, that’s nothing less than HIGH TREASON, a capital which is still punishable by death, and rightly so.
Get a clue, already, and stop whining about the election that your side was unable to steal this time. And remember, it’s absolutely impossible to be BOTH “socialist” and “fascist” at the same time, so find some other “buzzwords” to describe your rightfully-elected government already, because those ones are wearing thin…but then again, that’s what usually happens when idiots use words they don’t really understand.
Socialism and Fascism are both on the Liberal side of the political spectrum. The spectrum actually stretches from Anarchy to complete government control. The reason you believe that they are opposite is because you are viewing them from a European paradigm. You think that because the Communist and Fascist were at war with each other that they were polarized. But they were but on the left. What’s more if you read Eric Hoffers book, The True believer, you would realize that the type of person drawn to one is just as easily turned to the other.
Liberals/ Progressives/ Statist want to place Fascism on the Right, but there is no one on the right that embraces Fascism.
Your fundamental notion that Fascism is on the Left is so laughably wrong at it’s inception as to make whatever logic you draw from it not even worthy of reading. Get a clue and read more than one book on the subject.
Mussolini, a person who happened to know a little bit about fascism, described it as the merger of state and corporate powers, and right now you have to look no farther than GM (Government Motors) to see that here in the US. I didn’t see anyone on the left (and very few on the right) opposing the GM bailout, but that’s economic fascism, plain and simple.
Jon is correct, fascism and communisim are both large government, statist ideologies..
This is great… let me quote you…”If you take up arms, openly advocate taking up arms, or even just THREATEN to take up arms against your democratically elected government, you’re a traitor; it’s just that simple.” Now… let me quote the LAW here in the United States of America:
United states Code:TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2381
§ 2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”
Now that we have been properly educated as to what constitutes treason in this country, how does “openly advocate taking up arms, or even just THREATEN to take up arms against your democratically elected government” constitute treason? No… however, it may possibly fall under violation of free speech…hmm…lets look into that… “Advocacy of Illegal Action: A category of speech unprotected by the First Amendment. For many years, the constitutional rule famously was that speech was unprotected if “words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a CLEAR and PRESENT danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.” Schenck v. United States, 249 US 47 (1919). However, the current rule is that “the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing IMMINENT lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.” Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 US 444 (1969). ” Wow. So, not only is it NOT treason, it isn’t even against the law to “openly advocate taking up arms, or even just THREATEN to take up arms against your democratically elected government.” And your lack of ability to educate yourself is only furthered by your later quote “If you’re an elected member or an appointed official OF said government and you do any of the above, that’s nothing less than HIGH TREASON, a capital which is still punishable by death, and rightly so.” The United States Code makes ZERO references to “High Treason”, or that the punishment for said treason is different. the code i quoted previously, is THE code for any treason, no matter what you call it. Educate yourself my friend… spend less time telling people what you think, and more time finding out how to back up the statements you make with fact. A wise man once said that “It is better to keep your mouth shut, and appear to be a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”. I believe you may do well to take his advice.
Wooops! It appears I ommitted a word there; ( meant to say “high treason, a capital CRIME which is still punishable by death.”
The USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy, democracy is a vile form of mob rule that our founders despised, but you idiots have never picked up a history book in your life, so you don’t know any better, yet you have the audacity to get up on a soapbox and start lecturing. Citizens have a natural right to arm themselves in the face of an oppressive government, that is what our founders intended.
A constitutional republic is one of the many possible forms of representative democracy.
I read that in a history book.
Actually it is the one we were given. As Ben Franklin said when asked what type of Government they gave us, ” A Rebulic, if you can keep it.”
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000592
It appears that we can’t keep it, for too long we have craved security over true freedom.
Sorry ..Republic..typing too fast.
You know what I find vile? I find it vile when people equate the majority of the people with a mob, as you have done, Jason. I find it vile when people like you suggest that only a select few should be given the opportunity to have a role in government.
Democracy is not vile.
I also don’t think that Freedom of Speech is vile. I don’t think it ought to be audacious to speak on political topics in the United States of America. Apparently, you do.
Like I said, you’re just plain ignorant of our history. Go read the Federalist papers #10, see what James Madison, you know, the guy who wrote our constitution, said about pure democracy, here’s an excerpt : “Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”
The whole idea of a constitutional republic is that a majority can’t oppress a minority, such as 51% of the population voting that the other 49% should b enslaved.. It’s a very important distinction… you should be proud, damn proud, as I am, that people get upset when the constitution is violated, be it TARP bailouts, unconstitutional wars, free speech, nationalized health care or whatever. You should be proud when they exercise their second amendment rights, the constitution is their to protect you, to protect me, to protect everyone.
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Hey Jason Genius…..Then why did bush, cheney, rumsfeld, and their entire neo-con claque go on and on and on about spreading “DEMOCRACY” in Iraq and all through the mid-east !!??
Every Republican on TV and talk radio blathers on about bringing “DEMOCRACY” to the world !!!
The entire “DEMOCRACY” spreading rightwing movement contradicts what you heard on from another ignorant hate fueled slob.
Umm, because they are neocon scumbags who don’t give a damn about our constitution? None of which has anything to do with the point I was trying to make.
Hey Jason Genius…..Then why did bush, cheney, rumsfeld, and their entire neo-con claque go on and on and on about spreading “DEMOCRACY” in Iraq and all through the mid-east !!??
Every Republican on TV and talk radio blathers on about bringing “DEMOCRACY” to the world !!!
The entire “DEMOCRACY” spreading rightwing movement contradicts what you heard on from another ignorant hate fueled slob.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a group of racists who decided to protest the black President of the United States. If they were truly concerned about deficits, they would have protested the last guy’s fiscal policies. These include tax breaks for billionaires and digging a bottomless pit otherwise known as the Iraq War.
Where were all those white people then?
I was marching with Ron Paul’s original Tea Party back in 07 while that fascist Bush was still in power. You think Obama is any better?, he supported TARP just like Bush and McCain, so the real question is where are you the anti-war liberals now that Obama’s in office? If you really love your country stand up for whats right and stop calling your fellow American’s ‘racists’, some people figure things out later than others, but as long as their on the right path they deserve support.
Jason, when Tea Party protesters engage in nasty racist slurs, it’s important to call them on it. I won’t go along with the line of reasoning that the R3volution of Ron Paul is so important that we have to accept bigots to serve the hero.
Racism is just another ugly form of collectivism, and any real conservative/libertarian who respects individual rights both despises and condemns it. There are idiots in every crowd, and agent-provocateurs like the Lyndon Larouche clowns showing up at tea-party events with blatantly racist signs. Looking beyond that, there’s a lot of good overlap between elements of the Tea Partiers and the left, areas where cooperation is possible.. ending the wars, repealing the patriot act, and above all respecting the constitution. But if all we’re going to do is name call and find excuses to ignore one-another, well then, we might as well load up the muskets and march back to Gettysburg, and everyone loses
Ron Paul is a waste of time and energy. He has no chance of winning a dog show, much less a presidential election, and is nothing more than a tired old man. His son is a bigot who wants to deprive Americans with disabilities of their rights.
Neither of them are true Americans.
Winning an election isn’t everything, influencing the debate, challenging the culture, promoting new ideas is just as important if not more so, and at that he (Ron Paul) has been very successful. And who the hell are you to judge who a real American is? Ron Paul’s forgotten more about the Constitution and the Federalist papers than most people will ever known. You just come on here slinging mud without evidence and name-calling like a child, and I’ve got better things to do than to waste keystrokes trying to educate you.
Soros said the new model was not to own business but control it through regulation and taxation. I would say they have made a good start on this. Why build what you can take away. This is the concept of money being public property and is the main difference between us and everyone else.
Why do they carry guns, because it is a badge of freedom. If you have guns in the population you either have a govt that trusts it’s people or no govt at all. It is interesting to me that ancedotal evidence from an idiot here or there is all anyone can ever complain about when it comes to the Tea Party. To see the hate you libs say you abhore you only need to listen to the people rioting in WI. All the hate, death threats, and threat of violence that you could want. You guys don’t need to put us under a microscopte to find these things, just look around you.
Oh, and by the way, being completely convinced you are right which most libs are is not a justification for anything. Was it not just your side reminding us that elections have consequences? Why is it ok for theses dems to ignore the system they have held up so often for the last 2-4 years. I guess like everything else with you guys it is whatever works for you at the time. You have no priniples as a group and it is sad.