Look at the teenagers here. They’re leaping and jumping for joy. They’re free and wild, and nobody is going to be able to hold them back, right!
Think again. Taking the ASVAB could very well hold them back – or cause them to wind up dead.
Life’s a journey. Discover your possibilities… holding a gun, and then get shot in the head.
I found out about the ASVAB scam this week from a friend who has a teenage son. It must be a rotten time to have teenage kids, or to be a teenager, for that matter. Career opportunities are at a generation-long low. It’s frightening to have a high school child facing the looming need for employment at a time when there are so few jobs worth having.
In the face of these economic difficulties, some career guidance sure would come in handy, right? Enter the ASVAB.
My friend’s son goes to the Ithaca High School, which recently sent home the letter you see down below (click it to read it for yourself). It describes a ASVAB Career Exploration Program by the “Syracuse MEPS”. What’s a Syracuse MEP? The letter doesn’t say.
Syracuse MEPS is a Military Entrance Processing Station in Syracuse, New York, working under the Military Entrance Processing Command.
The letter from the Ithaca High School Student Services Department doesn’t offer a clue about that. It says that the ASVAB is a program that “consists of an aptitude test, an interest inventory, and a Career Exploration package which allows students to compare their current abilities, interests, and personal work values with over 400 real life jobs.”
Those 400 real life jobs are all in the military. ASVAB stands for Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. It’s a military entrance exam, the first step in becoming a professional soldier.
The letter my friend and her son received said nothing about that. Neither did the brochure that was sent home along with the letter. Both the Ithaca High School’s letter and the accompanying brochure created by the military are designed to trick students and their parents. The web site that the letter and brochure refer to, asvabprogram.com, is the same way, with only a tiny statement at the very bottom of the screen that reads The ASVAB Career Exploration Program is sponsored by the Department of Defense. The idea is to deceive high school kids and their parents into thinking that they’re receiving helpful civilian career counseling, while using the ASVAB test to obtain data that can be used by military recruiters.
It was only during the test that my friend’s son realized what he had gotten himself into. As he was getting ready to take the tests, he realized that the administrators of the test kept on talking about career opportunities in the military.
The ASVAB is being used all across America to seduce kids into joining the military. Deception and coercion are common. High school administrators often tell students that they’re required by federal law to take the military entrance test. That’s untrue – but since when has the truth ever bothered military recruiters trying to meet their quotas?
The Ithaca High School could have chosen not to go along with the ASVAB scam. The Ithaca City Schools is required by law to allow access to military recruiters, but it is not at all required to be silent in the face of deceptive practices military recruiters. The Ithaca High School Student Services Department could have chosen to send a separate message home to students along with the ASVAB promotional materials, making it clear that the ASVAB is a tool for military recruitment only.
Instead, the Ithaca High School chose not to inform their students, which is why I’m writing this article. The children and parents of Ithaca, New York deserve to know the truth about ASVAB, so that they can learn an important lesson: You can’t trust authority. With the military, that’s doubly true.
The military IS a career choice. It’s a way of life. To bad mouth the ASVAB and the military using Antiwar.com is like me supporting the test using defense.gov. The military has a right to recruit individulas as wouls anyother company, business or college on any campus in the country. To deny them access is discriminatory against a choice. That would be like not having Oil companies come to campus to recruit potential engineers because they could create another BP oil spill.
Yes, they can go and recruit people, but to use deceptive practices like this, getting kids and their parents thinking there’s a general career development resource, when the kids are going actually be put into the military entrance process, is extremely abusive. The fact that you choose to ignore that makes me question your ethical foundations, Tomas.
Oh, please….
Please what, exactly? It’s sleazy as hell for the Department of Defense and Ithaca High School to disguise a military entrance test as a general vocational exam. You know very well it’s dishonest. It’s not truthful.
I know, I know. Please…so what…
Well, if you’re not against deception just because it violates one of the Ten Commandments, good for you for transcending religious morality.
And if you say, well, that’s war…you’re right. Deception is an integral part of war. And if our own military and our own schools conspire to deceive our teenagers, that’s a military operation conducted by the United States of which our own children are the victim.
Yeah, I know… Please… So what…
Whatever, your distain for the military and anything it does is noted and dismissed….
Tomas, why do you have such a huge blind spot for deception when it comes from the military?
Why are you so prejudice against the military. And the ASVAB is known as a military administered test, that doesn’t mean your child has to enlist. Also almost any military job is also a job in the civilian community so it is most definitely an aptitude test. That your friend was unaware of these facts is the product of her own ignorance or neglect.
PS I am a high school senior, have taken the ASVAB, have not enlisted, and knew perfectly well what the ASVAB was.
Why do you think it is OK for the U.S. military to deceive American children?
Obviously you are completely misinformed as to how to get into the military. it is not like it once may have been, where you ship the same day as you sign. many time it takes months, and it’s not like the 17-18 year old “kids” don’t know what they are doing. and hell, to be in the army at 17, you have to have parental consent. i’m not going to bother to write anymore considering it just won’t do any good.
The ASVAB is not just for entering into the military. To say so is deceptive as well. This test is geared to show individuals what their strong areas are for a career. They may be lead into a direction they never thought of, and that is not just the military. Once a young adult takes this test and does their best on it they are shown their results and can see where their strong points are for certain careers. Being able to join the military due to their score is a previledge they have, but not a forced choice to be made. We have an all volunteer military today. If it wasn’t for the volunteers we have then yes, your young adult that does not want to enlist would get drafted. If you don’t want to protect your rights by being in the military that is o.k. to, Soldiers allow you to make that choice. YOU DON’T HAVE TO ENLIST. You say recruiters and schools are being deceptive about this, but so are you, or maybe you just don’t know all the facts. Either way, volunteer Soldiers give you the freedom to state your opinion, so don’t misinterpret anything about the military, to do so is to disrespect our Soldiers that give you the right to your opinion. God bless all of us as we struggle with each others opinions.
If Obama would just give everyone the jobs he promised, then people wouldn’t be pressured so much into signing up for the military. How many people REALLY want to go get shot at and blown up in the desert?
Good point this time, CN. The corporate work toward weakening of labor organizations, and the federal government’s help with that agenda, have driven a number of people into the military just when military life is especially dangerous. The fact that the military continues to have trouble meeting recruiting numbers in spite of all the efforts to push military enlistment on teenagers is telling: The militaristic way of life is generally rejected as incompatible with American values.
I’m not sure I agree on one point. If the corporate world at GM and Chrysler weakened the labor organizations, then it certainly wasn’t to the profit benefit of the firms mentioned. It seems like at Chrysler for instance, labor organizations made out like bandits. Bond holders who had legitimate claim on the company got screwed, while labor was granted an unearned 2/3 stake in the shares of the new company. They made out better than anybody, while they are at least culpable, just like many others, in the decline of the industry, due to their negotiated rosey pension packages.
Yeah, CN, i guess it’s too bad we’re not like China (yet). Then the corporations and ownership class could just make all of labor into wage slaves (oh, wait, we already ARE wage slaves) and pay us next to nothing, make working conditions dangerous and intolerable to all but the suicidal, and generally just treat their fellow humans as so much trash to be disposed of as soon as possible. Have patience, we’ll get there soon enough.
Hey Tommy, You don’t have to be a slave to anyone. Just go out and do something productive that people want to pay you money for.
That’s still the beauty of America.
You sound pretty nuts. Don’t take my comments to believe that I’m against Unions. I’ve actually been a member of one.
However, its the management of unions that is corrupt as any businessperson could ever want to be. If you think they are
strictly acting altruistically, then you are only deluding yourself.
Taking the test does not enter anyone into the ‘military entrance process.’ Okay, it gives them your name; but, Selective Service already gives them that, except for us ladies. Big deal, so another government agency has your name. It’s a very basic and free aptitude test. What’s the harm? Any teenager can look it up. Every school guidance counselor in America knows about it and can explain it.
By the way, I served in the military in a non-combat role. I wasn’t blown up in the desert; and the closest I’ve ever come to that was when my husband and I were harrassed by some Mexican illegals where we live in AZ.
It’s just a test.
Just like Tomas, you are missing the main point. They are being sneaky and deceptive about it and trying to lead people into thinking it’s something it’s not. If they’re up front and state clearly from the start that it’s a military recruiting organization, then yes, no harm no foul.
I guess you also missed this line: “High school administrators often tell students that they’re required by federal law to take the military entrance test. That’s untrue…”
Trying to scare and coerce kids into thinking they have to make even this minor commitment to the military is just plain wrong.
I wonder if they still single out kids to harass over the phone, like they did to me when I was in HS. This one recruiter would not accept no for an answer and kept calling my house, at least once every day, to get me to meet with him during school hours. I don’t know why I (or my mother, who usually answered the phone) didn’t think to tell this guy off and threaten him with harassment charges. Anyway, I finally said yes so he’d stop calling. I showed up to the meeting, he gave me the “once over” and very smirkily and scornfully said, “You’re not what we’re looking for.” That’s the closest I’ve ever come to actually kicking someone in the family jewels in my life. (I’m female, BTW.) I think only the fact that we were right outside the principal’s office stopped me.
Real career coaching is what students (and their parents) are wanting. The ASVAB is one of many “talent assessments”. Is it useful? Is it valid? Does the student get any value from the results? Ask students who have taken the ASVAB what benefits they received from taking the ASVAB. How did it help them sort out career options? Were they more engaged in their own career planning than they were before taking the ASVAB? Did they understand their own talents, strengths, etc. and potential career directions they could go? Did it help them to create an action plan for finding and pursuing their passions?
For any parent: Your teenagers high school is under-equipped to provide proper career coaching. The military, just like every vocational training institution and many colleges have “an assessment” that they use to identify possible career direction. They just happen to have a “program” that is perfectly aligned to “their talent”. Deception is pervasive (see article Frontline Exposes Fraudulent Student Enrollment Practices (http://www.careercoachingforstudents.net/coaches-blog.html).
Please don’t politicize this issue. It is much more serious. Parents are spending thousands of dollars on sports, band, cheerleader camps, brand name clothes, entertainment. What is the value of having a teenager with a vision and plan for entering adulthood with confidence?
Don’t politicize the issue?!?
Are you really suggesting that, when the military and schools work together to trick high school students into beginning the military entrance process by suggesting to them that they’re going to get an ordinary career development profile, it’s not a political issue?
What is the value of honesty, Carl? What is the value of having teenagers who feel able to trust adults? What is the value of having a government that doesn’t try to deceive parents?
Hi J,
Politicizing is to make it about Democrats/Republicans or Obama/Bush, etc. The military has been using the same tactic for decades regardless of who was in office or who controlled congress. This isn’t a political issue. It might be an ethical issue (most figure out that the ASVAB is the military assessment – it isn’t used outside the military that I know of). But the bottom line is that parents need to step up and be more engaged in helping their teenager conduct career planning. No one else has the same agenda that the parents have – to ensure their son or daughter finds success and happiness – in abundance. The parent can engage the proper resources to help. Too many families are hoping or relying on the “free” assessments.
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. It’s for the military. When I took the test in high school in 1981, our school counselor offered to sit down with anyone who took the test and review the results. I sat down with him and we reviewed them together. He then pulled out my grades, ACT scores and we had what I would call a thorough counselling session. For about one hour we discussed topics ranging from my grades, test results, homework discipline, career potentials, realistic expectations and the essentials of discussing these issues with my parents. He then scheduled follow-up meeting which typically lasted 15 min or less. By the time I finished my Junior year I was starting to develop a basic plan and understanding my options. The point is, the ASVAB, or any other test, ACT, SAT, etc.. are just exams. It’s what the counselors and other involved adults do that makes a difference. I’m glad the military provides this resource…that some in any organization take liberties with it’s presentation is something involved adults should be able to filter and manager around. Hello adulthood.
Validity? The military has used it for years, and as I later learned in the military, there is some good result from the exam. However, understand that it is but the first of many many exams advanced military positions require. It is very basic and not supposed to determine your entire course if life. If it helps the military sort out opportunities to fill positions, then I would say it is valid.
All that said, I agree with J. Clifford that any organization sanctioned by taxpayer dollars should be as forthright and open as possible. That is precisely what should be a political issue. As regards dem/rep or obama/bush, give me a break; both use/used the military to deadly effectiveness against people deemed to be our enemies. Both sides have an interest in maintaining the military as an efficient killing machine and as an extension of political will of the ruling class. Which is what it is supposed to be.
Nobody mentioned Democrats or Republicans or Obama or Bush before you did, Carl. That would be making the issue “partisan.” To “politicize” a problem is to say that there ought to be a policy approach to a problem. I agree with those who say that the use of deception against high school students is abusive. Teenagers’ brains aren’t fully mature, and they are vulnerable.
I’d be leery about following Carl’s link and using the website for which he works (yep, he does), if his attitude is that it’s up to parents to sniff out scams. Caveat Emptor is not enough when you’re talking about kids. If career counselors are really professionals, then they should have a professional code of ethics that they must follow. Schools that admit recruiters should be on the lookout for the scammy kind of behavior that military recruiters exhibited.
I’d like to stay on topic here. The orginal poster “J” states the ASVAB is the beginning of the recruitment process. True IF and only IF a person is interested in joining. The student MUST sign a consent form to allow military recruiters access to their scores in order to begin the recruitment process. There are no deceptive practices going on here. The test has been offered for at least 30 years and is a VERY good “aptitude test, interest inventory, and Career Exploration package which allows students to compare their current abilities, interests, and personal work values with over 400 real life jobs.” The REAL LIFE jobs are actually REAL LIFE jobs. Not just military jobs. *Have you ever seen the ASVAB? Taken it? Seen the results? I sure wish you had before making comments about it.
As stated above, high school counselors know about and embrace the assessment. It’s provided to high schools at no cost. And, most importantly, a high school can request to have a thorough debriefing of the assessment to bring more value to the students. You mention “J” that the school district should tell parents the ASVAB is used for “recruitment” purposes only. Honestly, that is not the case. The ASVAB is a very good overall assessment. As with any assessment, it’s only as good as the debriefing given after the assessment. If a student wants information on what the assessment means to them, they only need to ask their counselor.
I was an Air Force recruiter for 10 years. I NEVER used deceptive practices while a recruiter, and wouldn’t allow it while a recruiting manager. Recruiters are “fired” for telling untruths. Peregrin Wood(above)states the military is still having difficulty making recruiting numbers dispite the sour economy. Sorry, that just not true either. The Army has a waiting list to get into basic training…as do the the other branches.
The military is a great career choice for some, but like all other careers, it’s not for everyone. The great thing about America is freedom. Freedom to have choices, freedoms given to you by the blood of military members. For those who fight for it, life has a meaning the protected will never know. America is still the greatest country on the earth, and, for those who don’t think it is, you’re free to leave at any time.
The web is great place, but too many choose to make comments without haveing the facts. Check out anything I posted and you’ll find facts.
Anyone looking for additional career coaching for students should check out the last poster’s site. http://www.careercoachingforstudents.net. Looks like a great program for preparing students to enter college or begin a career.
Honestly, “Nagshead:” your e-mail shows that you work for that website as a licensed facilitator. “Looks like a great program,” huh? Noooo, you NEVER practice deception!
ABC News: military recruiters tell kids the war in Iraq is over to get them to enlist.
Why don’t we ask “F.G. Fitzer” about that?
I’m interested in a couple of points the previous author made. He says that there is a waiting list to get into basic training, and PW (that means Perigrin Wood, not p_ssy-whipped, BTW) says “…The fact that the military continues to have trouble meeting recruiting numbers..”
It would seem that there a waiting list for basic training means one of two things: 1.) their facilities for basic training are way undersized for their recruitment goals or 2.) PW is either wrong or practicing his own deception on the numbers.
I think that those are the only two ways those two statements can be reconciled. If there’s another possibility, let’s hear it.
He also states that “…The REAL LIFE jobs are actually REAL LIFE jobs. Not just military jobs….”, while PW (that again means Peregrin Wood, not Positively Weird) says: “…Those 400 real life jobs are all in the military. …”
Which is true? He asked if you have actually seen the ASVAB. Who has the actual truthful information about those jobs?
No deception, I’m fairly new to the program and still working with my first few students.
I’ll not comment on deception from ABC news. News, just like careers, need to be explored in detail. You can’t take anybody’s word for anything unless they have first hand knowledge. So, if you’re exploring careers, take assessments to determine your natural talents, then explore careers that align with those natural talents. Talk to people actually performing in those careers to determine day to day duties and responsibilities. The ASVAB is a very good assessment to determine natural talents, it’s free to the student. The document posted above from Ithaca High School states they are conducting a debrief of the assessment so value is given to the student. My suggestion to you is to have your friend’s son take the assessment, I’m sure he can leave address and phone number off the registration. Go through the debrief and see if there is value. If a recruiter does contact the son, tell them he’s going to college on a full ride scholarship. They are way too busy to hound someone about joining. The military developed the assessment to help with placing applicants into the field that best fits their talents. Since it was a good instrument, they decided to move on to offering to high schools to better serve their students. Like the poster above, it’s only a test.
I’ve been helping students and adults explore careers for 15 years. It’s all about research.
If you have a concern, why not speak to the counselor or principle at the school? Most times, communication can bring resolution.
I know I can’t win the game with you and I’m not going to try.
1. All branches of the military are meeting recruitment quotas currently, although they haven’t in the recent past. In that regard Peregrin had a detail in his above comment wrong. That detail wasn’t in the main article and isn’t central to the story.
2. You shilled for your website while pretending that you’d stumbled across it thanks to the previous poster, one of your coworkers. Cmon.
3. ABC News sent students in with hidden cameras in and found many more deceptive practices than the one I listed. They documented the deceptions on video, and the depth and breadth of deception involved makes that ACORN video look tame. I encourage byreaders to check out that article.
4. I don’t think screwing around with kids is a game.
Nagshead,
I personally don’t really care about you, but you should be aware that shilling on this website is very common, so you may be in very good company. There are a lot of games that are played, and with facts as well. No need to comment, just let it go.
So let’s give Perrygrin the benefit of the doubt, since his “wrong” (some might call it a deception) comment just wasn’t in the main story, so it doesn’t “count”. He incidently didn’t mention in his post on this article that he also “works” for them as well, so he seems to be as guilty of that shilling as Nags, if this particular posting was the only one you had chosen to read.
ABC news, like 60 minutes or any news show uses editing practices to make their point. I’m sure what they show is true. What we won’t know is, like Acorn claimed, how many places they went that had no such practices. They don’t show you those videos, because it doesn’t help the “angle” of their story. Maybe recruiters still generally follow those deceptive practices, and maybe today they have cleaned up their act. It’s a four year old article, after all, not current.
I wonder still if the 400+ career jobs, which were mentioned in the main article as “all in the military” is really true or not? And don’t weasel and state if an engineer works for Lockheed Martin, or some other defense contractor, that it’s “in the military”. I have friend that work for military contractors like LM and ITT, and they don’t have to worry about being sent into combat.
We sell items on this website: political bumper stickers, buttons and t-shirts that we agree with. We’re upfront about it.
“Shilling” is different. A shill is a person who advocates for a position or a company or a product because they are being paid for it without acknowledging that fact.
We don’t shill. You can’t name one instance of us shilling, because we don’t do it.
“You can’t take anybody’s word for anything unless they have first hand knowledge.”
and sometimes not even then if they have a vested interest in promoting a particular agenda, like you do.
Nothing to do with selling, in this context. See definition number 2.
And I could name plenty, if it was worth the bother. It’s not, when the truth is out there. Give up the self-righteous pretense.
It’s unbecoming. And pretty funny to criticize someone that one of you caught at it.
shill
? ?/??l/ Show Spelled [shil] Show IPA Slang .
–noun
1.
a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.
2.
a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.
OK, mister stretchy. You caught me. I have been known to say nice things about my friends. Slap on the cuffs!
Irregular Times has never advocated for a position, a person or a product in order to covertly receive money. That is the primary definition of “shill” on the internet, as most everyone knows. We do not do that. Period.
Keep doling out the personal insults. You’ve been doing it here for five years.
At least he’s not as annoying as phil. You remember phil, from wayyyyy back when? Good times.
Hey, if it makes you feel any better, almost 80% of people, whether in high school or not, don’t even score high enough on the ASVAB to qualify for military entrance anyway, essentially rendering the exam absolutely useless as anything more than a general civilian career aptitude test…
Especially since they just raised the qualifying ASVAB score by 20 points.
I’m not saying that deceptive practices in administering the test are ok- I don’t feel they are- but when I was in high school & took it (I was also told it was mandatory), I realized pretty quickly what it was for, considering SOLDIERS in UNIFORM were administering it. And I was so high that morning (used to be a huge pothead)… So, it really doesn’t take a genius to figure out what the test is for- I don’t believe its something to get so worried about. Its a test- and yes they lie about it sometimes- but really, the recruiters aren’t eating babies or anything, just trying to feed their own families by administering tests to snotty teenagers, talking up a career that may suck sometimes but at least can provide some decent lifeskills, benefits, & opportunities. No one can put anyone in the military against their will, so your argument that they’re beginning military processing is uninformed- b/c unless someone signs a form specifically stating they want to join the military (AFTER taking the ASVAB, getting a physical, filling out a stack of forms & getting waivers, getting fingerprinted, etc), they have NOT begun any kind of military processing. The ASVAB IS a component of entrance processing, yes, but as a stand-alone, no! If someone takes the extra step of getting the physical done & filling out paperwork, yes they are in the system, but ONLY then. It is illegal for the military to put someone in as an “applicant” just because they’ve taken the ASVAB. Plus, as I said before, most of the kids don’t pass the test anyway & are never contacted- those who do pass will be contacted, but they still have to make the choice for themselves- and even still, no recruiter can put a kid in without THOROUGHLY discussing it w/ the parents anyway.
Oh, and BTW, there is a regulation that requires students be able to choose to OPT-OUT of any and all high school recruiting, while still being eligible to be recruited in college, or be able to choose to OPT-OUT of all recruiting, high school & college. So yes, there are other choices, it is NOT mandatory… and truly, as parents, we have a duty to gain knowledge of these choices- we can’t rely on other people (ie the schools) to do it for us.
Just please remember, again, that recruiters don’t really want to take your babies and send them to war… (Helpful hint though: Active military is on a 2-year tour rotation, whereas Reserve & National Guard components are on a 4-yr tour rotation, meaning most reservists & guardsmen reap the benefits & never see foreign sands, as they either 1) typically take an active assignment locally & are not even eligible to go, or 2) have their contract expire before their unit ever gets activated to deploy). Back to recruiters- usually they have to do the job, and they have to do it well, to be able to put food on their own tables & send their own kids to school. They aren’t evil or anything. And chances are, the most caring, honest recruiters will be the ones who have chosen to recruit, not the ones who have been assigned to recruit, so if your kid comes home saying he’s being recruited, your first question for the recruiter should be whether they do it out of choice or obligation. If they do it out of choice, they’re more interested in what’s best for your child than they are reaching a quota.
Thanks for reading,
Scarlette
I think all of the major subjects were touched here but you stated in your article that the Ithaca HS AND the Military were deceptive, but when you go to the linked PDF there is only the Ithaca school brochure that, as it seems vague, is less than deceptive with the reference in the second paragraph to civilian AND military jobs and the last paragraph that states to go to the ASVAB website for more information. Also, where is the miltary brochure? The fact that you know that it is military would indicate that it is not deceptive.
You said: “The letter my friend and her son received said nothing about that. Neither did the brochure that was sent home along with the letter. Both the Ithaca High School’s letter and the accompanying brochure created by the military are designed to trick students and their parents.”
You showed the letter but where is the brochure? Are we to take you word for it? Or do we have to go over what being a shill is again (Would you be an anti-war shill by definition?)? You would also have to be pretty darned stupid to not notice the military recruiter that gives the test also.
Give War A Chance!!!
David
PS and before you say I don’t know what I’m talking about I am a retired Special Forces Medical Sergeant that served two tours in Afghanistan, came back with all body parts and no PTSD, and I wasn’t “tricked” by any recruiter. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into and it was a wonderful experience to lay your life on the line for the country you love and believe in!
If people seriously don’t know what ASVAB stands for, they are not the most intelligent. It has been around for ages and given in High Schools around here(PA) for the last 10 – 15 years. It’s nothing new.
I knew exactly what I was taking when I took the ASVAB. The woman who administered the test was very clear that the test was sponsored by the military, she also said that they would get information pertaining to our scores. Their is no trickery here, if you don’t know how read and reason then you can’t really complain when a recruiter wants to talk to you. The military isn’t hurting for recruits right now, they are actually turning people away because they don’t meet the requirements. Point is, people are going to learn a valuable lesson here, know your facts, and if you don’t want to take the test, then you DO NOT have to.
-
Jacob McCombie
P.S. I just took the test and got my AFQT score back, I got a ninety five, and I am pumped.
If your high school was very up front about that fact that this was a military test, then that’s great. This was not obvious in the materials given to students or parents at Ithaca High School, and that’s wrong.
It’s part of the military ethos to live by a high code of ethics, same with educators. The U.S. military and Ithaca High School failed to uphold a high code of ethics in this case. Period. Shame on them.
Let’s not be naive, deception is part of the way the military operates. That’s a ethical challenge for soldiers who consider themselves honorable, but there’s a strong case to be made for the need to deceive the enemy. And that’s the key–the enemy, not the people you are supposedly defending.
The military that blurs the line between its tactical approach to the enemy and the population it is supposedly defending has lost its moral compass and is dangerous.
HAHA! LMAO. That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. The ASVAB scam?!?! Liberals are dumb, but this is a real low. The ASVAB is a career exploration test and you have to take it if you want to go into the military. Just by taking it does not mean you’re going into the military.. WOW! good catch jclifford. lls
HAHA! A lot of clueless people in this world. Really, you didn’t know what the ASVAB was? Listen, I love liberals, but too often they are all heart and no brains. Thanks for looking out for our deceived youth though, because I’m sure that the fact the test was to be taken inside the recruiting station in the federal building wouldn’t have tipped them off first, or all the men and women in uniform. I have been there and it is impossible NOT to know you are entering a recruiting office. Irregular news, or irrelevant news? You tell me.
I recently left the service a few weeks ago, and came across this article. I’ve served five years in the military, spending a majority of my time in either Europe and Afghanistan.
This article lacks substance in that,
1. Even if the students were “deceived” into taking the ASVAB (they weren’t), it by no means automatically enlists every test taker. Every single student in the entire school can participate in the ASVAB, have their scores evaluated, and then EVERY student can walk by a recruiter, test results in hand, and tell them to f*ck off. The most that it does is provide information on the intelligence of a potential recruit.
2. It’s the responsibility of the parents and the students to properly research anything that they are engaging in. As a teenager, I didn’t know a single student in high school who didn’t know what the ASVAB was. In fact, it was pretty much a no brainer.
3. … “Get shot in the head”? Jclifford not only knows almost nothing about the military, he actually managed to demonstrate the ability to know less than nothing. Watching Black Hawk Down and We Were Soldiers does not qualify anyone to arbitrarily trash and skew the military.
More Americans are killed in the United States each year from car crashes, heart disease, murder, etc, than in the entire war on terror. In fact, you stand more chance of being shot in the head by walking around downtown St. Louis, MO than you do walking in downtown Jalalabad, Afghanistan. Stop producing your writing material from mainstream shock-addicted media.
4. You can’t trust authority?… Really? Can’t trust the military? Your platitude once again shows your absolute and complete ignorance for the subject matter above. You’re a fear-mongering idiot.
Oh, also, I’m a liberal. Keep that in mind.
Oh Bob, too bad you’re a liberal or I would disagree with you. Wait, what?
It was pretty clear that I could not tell anyone at my school to fuck off when any adults were around. I’m glad to hear soldiers don’t actually “get shot in the head,” so tell me, are the helmets so good they keep all the bullets out or can we save money by getting rid of the helmets? Also glad to hear we’re done with our good deeds in Afghanistan since it’s safer than Missouri. We should be able to withdraw more than 10% of our troops in the next 2 years then.
Well-
I served in the military (Air Force) during the first gulf war and i am still here.
My brother in law served in the Marines and brother served in the Army (infantry)-there’s still here.
My Father served during the Korean War and my Husband’s father served in the Army during Korea and Vietnam and he passed at the age of 90. My husband served in the gulf war and he’s still here. My ex-husband served in the military for 20 years and he’s still here.
In fact, the vast majority of people i know that served in the military came home.
While i do not agree the way “some” recruiters enlist people (by using deception)-to assume that everyone who serves in the military will automatically be shot dead is just plain ridiculous.
Yes-people die in conflict. Notice i say CONFLICT. That conflict could be here in the US or overseas. And while i hate war-i agree with the other poster that says that more people die on a daily basis than they have in the war on terror.
Frankly, i don’t want either of my boys to ever go into the military.
Our leaders nowadays have little respect for those who serve or have served.
They talk a big game while at the same time they do things like cut benefits to members, veterans, retirees and there families.
Our leaders (check to see how many congressional members have kids in the military-none) are also less likely to have served in the military or send their kids into military service. They want others to sacrifice but want nothing to do with sacrificing themselves.
When my oldest was in high school he was approached numerous times by recruiters on campus to the degree that i had to send in a note in order to keep them away.
I told my son that if he ever wanted to join that he needed to see us first and we will “tell it like it is” and advise him on the branch and direction he should take. Then we would take him to a recruiter ourselves. A recruiter will be less likely to BS a kid when there are retirees and veterans in his presence.
Fortunately, our oldest had ZERO desire to join. Neither did my stepsons who are now of age.
Our youngest (and last one to get through HS) will most likely be homeschooled through much of high school. But if not- we will tell him the same thing we told the others.
The teens can take the test. Heck, they can pass with flying colors. But that doesn’t mean they are required to join the military. When you “sign that dotted line” it’s because you decided to join in your own accord. Anyways, the same way you’re using the internet to bad mouth the military’s recruitment tactics can be used for research. Just simply google ASVAB. Could have saved yourself a few brain cells before regurgitating this post.
God bless America. Land of the free BECAUSE of the brave.
Wow, I have never seen so much ignorance as I have in this article. Just like Gmonkey said, taking the ASVAB does not deceive students into joining the military. It says its a career exploration program because IT IS. If you have ever witnessed the interpretation (you would know what that was if you did a little research) the career paths that they suggest are civilian jobs, not military. You really need to check your facts before you write an article because you just made yourself lose all credibility and frankly, you look like a complete dumbass.
Wow, your friend’s son is an imbecile. You are clearly saying that he was going to take a test that he had no idea what it was for. Any semi-intelligent high school student knows what the ASVAB is. Another question is, WHY does he need to take the ASVAB in order to look for civilian jobs? What were his scores on the ACT or SAT? Even a halfway decent score would let him get into a technical college. Complaining about “deceit” by way of the school & the military is biased idiocy. The only subversive part of the ASVAB is that it is designed for lower level intellect. I took it in less than half the time allowed, and got a 99. That’s the highest score you can get. It’s not even close to being as hard as the ACT or SAT. But it is the standard test for the Military.
I’ve taken the ASVAB. It is a military provided service, and they do use it for recruitment, but taking the test does not in any way send you down the track for the military. It sorts you by personality into either Realistic, Investigative, Artistic, Social, Enterprising, or Conventional. Based on there it places you it will recommend careers that fit your personality such as Broadcast Technician, Cook, Firefighter, Pilot, Woodworker, Dentist, Meteorologist, Surveyor, Veterinarian, Actor, Composer, Musician, Writer, Childcare worker, Dental assistant, EMT, LPN, Park Naturalist, Social worker, Teacher, or Tour guide. After taking the test you are given answers to FAQ’s about that job and an insight into what a day in that field could be like, and educational Opportunities for each career. The Instructor who comes would be talking about all sorts of jobs in the military because he is a recruiter, it is a military sponsored test. But just because the instructor is mainly there to advertise military careers, doesn’t mean the test is. The wrap up on the back of the booklet says
“This guide helped you start exploring careers. You learned about your interests, skills, abilities, and work values, and how to find out more about occupations you might want to pursue. Career exploration does not stop here, however. Talk to your parents, teachers, and counselor about taking steps to prepare for a career. They can help you plan your courses and make appropriate choices for your future education and employment.
As your goals and interests change, your occupational interests may change. You can use the skills and concepts you have learned here in the future as you continue career exploration.”
That’s the truth of the matter. The military does pay for it, so the recruiter comes and gets to give his little dance about how awesome the military is, but that’s not what the test is about, not at all.
Oh, bullshit. If any other group used an “aptitude test” to collect information about your underage children in order to target them for aggressive recruiting, without identifying themselves in the promotional materials for the test, you’d be pissed. And justifiably so.
I didn’t know there were people who didn’t know what the ASVAB is. In Nebraska a recruiter is there to explain and hand out the test, and even if you dont want to be in the military it can help point you in a good direction.
The ASVAB is a general aptitude test, Ralph, and the DoD doesn’t need it in order to collect information about our kids. Federal law requires that a school provide contact information for all of their students to recruiters who request it. What really dictates how the usefull the ASVAB is is how the recruiter who does the interpretation presents the material. Aggresive recruiters are what they are. It’s annoying, and generally unsuccessful, but has absolutely nothing to do with the viability of the ASVAB as a tool for students to help plan their future. A recruiter who does the interp correctly should talk a whole lot more about college than they do the military.
Everybody knows you can’t believe any promises a military recruiter makes–you’ll get money for college, you’ll get career training, you won’t go to a war zone, whatever. They are what they are, as you say. I just think it really sucks that what they are is less than honorable. The ASVAB is one of their tools. Sure, it’s a “general aptitude test”–administered by the military to underage civilians. The pamphlet, at least, doesn’t just come out and say that’s what it is. I think it’s fucked up that our own military won’t just be straighforward with young people who are considering serving their country.
I would Also point out to people that the ASVAB Scoring is based of a pre-1964 8th grade education
How about we do what the Bundeswehr in Germany has done forever and bring in the Wehrpflicht meaning either you join the Military for at least 3 years or you work for the government
Okay My name is Emma and I’m sixteen. Last Tuesday I took the ASVAB test FULLY AWARE and WILLINGLY that it is an exam generally and specifically used for the Military. If you are not intelligent enough to look into something before you take a test on it then that’s your own fault. But before they administer the test the gentleman or lady will ask you “How many of you are taking this to enter the military at some point in time, or directly after high school?” Now that’s what they asked us, but they will ask something along those lines usually. And every student in the room raised their hand, so teens are fully aware of what they get into. If this person’s son or daughter didn’t do a little research before taking an exam that isn’t generally admitted to everyone then that’s his fault. And just because you take the test, it doesn’t mean you’re automatically put into the military. The administer makes that clear with everyone when you take it.
Just my experience and opinion.